Hi

Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new
Cyclone IV

Antti

"Antti"
<a...@googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:b...@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi
> Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new
> Cyclone IV
> Antti


Aye, but the first devices aren't available until next March.

That's almost _6_ months away.

:-(


Nial. 

All,

I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to
60nm).

It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new
family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that
the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power,
and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we
are at best a two out of three for a new node).

True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low
power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one
way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!"

When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was
"lower the power!"

I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the
previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but
frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to
cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets.

Anyway, it is always fun to watch how these things play out,

Austin

Antti wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new
> Cyclone IV

And us hobbyist types are wondering: will Altera give us a _free_ 
development environment for Linux this time?
(just in case anyone from Altera drops in here occasionally).
-- 
Torfinn Ingolfsen,
Norway

austin <a...@xilinx.com> wrote:

>All,
>
>I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to
>60nm).
>
>It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new
>family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that
>the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power,
>and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we
>are at best a two out of three for a new node).
>
>True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low
>power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one
>way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!"
>
>When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was
>"lower the power!"
>
>I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the
>previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but
>frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to
>cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets.

That raises the question: Can we expect to see a new Spartan series
with more speed?

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
                     "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!"
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Nov 5, 12:58=A0am, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico
Coesel) wrote:
> austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:
> >All,
>
> >I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to
> >60nm).
>
> >It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new
> >family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that
> >the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power,
> >and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we
> >are at best a two out of three for a new node).
>
> >True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low
> >power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one
> >way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!"
>
> >When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was
> >"lower the power!"
>
> >I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the
> >previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but
> >frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to
> >cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets.
>
> That raises the question: Can we expect to see a new Spartan series
> with more speed?
>
> --
> Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
> indicates you are not using the right tools...
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0"If it doesn't fit, use a bigg=
er hammer!"
> --------------------------------------------------------------

i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first
Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to
release it as planned

Antti

On Nov 5, 12:04=A0pm, Antti
<antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first
> Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to
> release it as planned

Triscend revisited ?

A key question is not the core, but what memory they put around it ?

Plenty of ARM cores out there, that have memory included
(they are called Microcontrollers!)  - and the choice is growing.

-jg

On Nov 5, 7:25=A0am, -jg
<jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:04=A0pm, Antti <antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first
> > Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to
> > release it as planned
>
> Triscend revisited ?
>
> A key question is not the core, but what memory they put around it ?
>
> Plenty of ARM cores out there, that have memory included
> (they are called Microcontrollers!) =A0- and the choice is growing.
>
> -jg

well ARM+CPLD is again announced now too, its called PSoC 5
cortex-M3 + small CPLD

Antti

>I was puzzled that they used a push of the
65nm technology node (to
> 60nm).
> It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new
> family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that
> the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power,
> and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we
> are at best a two out of three for a new node).

TSMCs problems at 40nm are pretty well documented.

Cheers,
Jon

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Antti wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new
>> Cyclone IV
> 
> And us hobbyist types are wondering: will Altera give us a _free_ 
> development environment for Linux this time?
> (just in case anyone from Altera drops in here occasionally).

There's a beta version available (I haven't tried it - I just noticed it 
on their web site when wandering about).