On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:06:30 -0800 (PST), Rick
<r...@gmail.com> wrote:

|It is a great effort but last time I checked it was a bit pricey ~$300
|for a basic system.
|
|===================

Try 333 euros now. $453 US. That includes the Cyclone 3 FPGA extender
board. 

james

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:27:23 -0500, jmfbahciv
<jmfbahciv@aol> wrote:

|Rick wrote:
|> On Feb 10, 2:55 am, Olafur Gunnlaugsson <o...@audiotools.com> wrote:
|>> Þann 05/02/2010 18:19, Eric Chomko skrifaði:
|>>
|>>> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an FPGA? I
|>>> was wondering if it would be possible to take an entire SWTPC 6800 and
|>>> compile the schematics and have it run on an FPGA board.? Wouldn't
|>>> even have to be the latest Xylinx product, I suspect.
|>> There are loads of such projects out there, even a commercial one called
|>> C-One "the reconfigurable computer",
here:http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/
|> 
|> It is a great effort but last time I checked it was a bit pricey ~$300
|> for a basic system.
|> 
|Just out of curiosity, how old are you?  Giving the decade is OK.
|A game system is that price so I'm wondering if "kids" think $300
|is too much.
|
|/BAH
|===========

Kids today have little concept of what is too much. 

For what the board does it is a good price even now at 333 euros. The
boards are no longer shipping at the 269 euros anymore. The increase
price now reflects that the system ships with the FPGA extender card.
Also the main board uses two older FPGAs, EP1K30 and EP1K100.  

You also need a SVGA monitor, a keyboard, memory, a PS2 style mouse,
floppy drives, hard drive, ATX case and ATX power supply. So to get a
system up and minimally running is going to cost you at least another
$200 additionally unless you have all those components lieing around
in your juck box. 

It is a great effort on the team's part. It can be very flexible
system now with the Cyclone 3 extender board. 

james  

On Feb 11, 6:27=A0am, jmfbahciv
<jmfbahciv@aol> wrote:
> Rick wrote:
> > On Feb 10, 2:55 am, Olafur Gunnlaugsson <o...@audiotools.com> wrote:
> >> =DEann 05/02/2010 18:19, Eric Chomko skrifa=F0i:
>
> >>> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an FPGA? I
> >>> was wondering if it would be possible to take an entire SWTPC 6800 an=
d
> >>> compile the schematics and have it run on an FPGA board.? Wouldn't
> >>> even have to be the latest Xylinx product, I suspect.
> >> There are loads of such projects out there, even a commercial one call=
ed
> >> C-One "the reconfigurable computer",
here:http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one=
/
>
> > It is a great effort but last time I checked it was a bit pricey ~$300
> > for a basic system.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how old are you? =A0Giving the decade is OK.
> A game system is that price so I'm wondering if "kids" think $300
> is too much.
>
> /BAH

59. Directed at Olafur too, it isn't a question of value for goods
delivered. Having recently priced getting some prototype boards made,
I think they are priced appropriately.

I have a pretty good idea of ratio of shall we say sophisticated users
to the Plebs. An analogy would be a Porsche is more expensive then
riding a bus. The Plebs aren't concerned with file I/O, clock
frequency, or storage. If they look back at all it is just to play a
game of Pac Man or Bard's Tale. An emulator or SoC is fine and suited
to their needs. This reduces the potiential market to hard core users.

Rick

Rick wrote:
> On Feb 11, 6:27 am, jmfbahciv <jmfbahciv@aol> wrote:
>> Rick wrote:
>>> On Feb 10, 2:55 am, Olafur Gunnlaugsson <o...@audiotools.com> wrote:
>>>> Þann 05/02/2010 18:19, Eric Chomko skrifaði:
>>>>> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an FPGA? I
>>>>> was wondering if it would be possible to take an entire SWTPC 6800
and
>>>>> compile the schematics and have it run on an FPGA board.? Wouldn't
>>>>> even have to be the latest Xylinx product, I suspect.
>>>> There are loads of such projects out there, even a commercial one called
>>>> C-One "the reconfigurable computer",
here:http://www.c64upgra.de/c-one/
>>> It is a great effort but last time I checked it was a bit pricey ~$300
>>> for a basic system.
>> Just out of curiosity, how old are you?  Giving the decade is OK.
>> A game system is that price so I'm wondering if "kids" think $300
>> is too much.
>>
>> /BAH
> 
> 59. Directed at Olafur too, it isn't a question of value for goods
> delivered. Having recently priced getting some prototype boards made,
> I think they are priced appropriately.

Ah, OK.

> 
> I have a pretty good idea of ratio of shall we say sophisticated users
> to the Plebs. An analogy would be a Porsche is more expensive then
> riding a bus. The Plebs aren't concerned with file I/O, clock
> frequency, or storage. If they look back at all it is just to play a
> game of Pac Man or Bard's Tale. An emulator or SoC is fine and suited
> to their needs. This reduces the potiential market to hard core users.

If you had been a youngster, I would have poked a little bit more
to try to find out what kinds of things would interest you ;-).
I'm hearing rumors that the current young generation are interested
in learning about how all the insides work.

/BAH

Huge wrote:
> 
> Another terrible moment in a deeply terrible movie.
> 
> I wanted the dinosaurs to kill them all. And quickly.

At least in _Jurassic Park_ you could root for the dinosaurs. _The
Matrix_ (my candidate for Most Overrated Movie Ever) didn't even have
that.

-- 
Michael Wojcik
Micro Focus
Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

On Feb 12, 12:46=A0pm, Michael Wojcik
<mwoj...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Huge wrote:
>
> > Another terrible moment in a deeply terrible movie.
>
> > I wanted the dinosaurs to kill them all. And quickly.
>
> At least in _Jurassic Park_ you could root for the dinosaurs. _The
> Matrix_ (my candidate for Most Overrated Movie Ever) didn't even have
> that.
>

Yes, the Hugo Weaving character was as obnoxious as Neo and the
others...

> --
> Michael Wojcik
> Micro Focus
> Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University

Some great stuff here.

Let me add my re-implementation of a New England Digital Able, the first 
commercial single-instruction processor.

<http://sites.google.com/site/macthenaief/Home/retro/able>;
<http://sites.google.com/site/macthenaief/Home/retro/fab>;

"Eric Chomko" <p...@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:b...@o8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an 
> FPGA? I
> was wondering if it would be possible to take an entire SWTPC 
> 6800 and
> compile the schematics and have it run on an FPGA board.? 
> Wouldn't
> even have to be the latest Xylinx product, I suspect.

Absolutely.  There a number of them.  This guy has done a PDP-4 
and PDP-8,

    http://homepage.mac.com/dgcx/pdp4x/

    http://homepage.mac.com/dgcx/pdp4x/

I am in the process of doing a PDP-1.  My  background is high 
performance computers so it is a high performance design. 
Todays FPGAs and CAD allow a much more agressive implementation 
than the original designers could afford and with far less 
effort.  The original PDP-1s sold for about $100K in early 
1960s' dollars.  Mine will cost only a few hundred dollars to 
build.

Those interested in the subject might also be interested in the 
simh group,

    http://simh.trailing-edge.com/

which does simulators for legacy computers.

Gary

In article
<l...@supernews.com>,
Abby Brown <a...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>"Eric Chomko" <p...@comcast.net> wrote in message 
>news:b...@o8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an 
>> FPGA? I
>> was wondering if it would be possible to take an entire SWTPC 
>> 6800 and
>> compile the schematics and have it run on an FPGA board.? 
>> Wouldn't
>> even have to be the latest Xylinx product, I suspect.
>
>Absolutely.  There a number of them.  This guy has done a PDP-4 
>and PDP-8,
>
>    http://homepage.mac.com/dgcx/pdp4x/
>
>    http://homepage.mac.com/dgcx/pdp4x/
>
>I am in the process of doing a PDP-1.  My  background is high 
>performance computers so it is a high performance design. 

Do you pipeline it? Any issues?

>Todays FPGAs and CAD allow a much more agressive implementation 
>than the original designers could afford and with far less 
>effort.  The original PDP-1s sold for about $100K in early 
>1960s' dollars.  Mine will cost only a few hundred dollars to 
>build.

A PDP1 is cool. Please tell when you have a production run. If
I have the money, I may shell out for a kit suitable for an 
economist to assemble.

But a PDP6, or a '10 with a modern performance design would
be ultracool. 

>Those interested in the subject might also be interested in the 
>simh group,
>
>    http://simh.trailing-edge.com/
>
>which does simulators for legacy computers.

I have used several of these emulators for years. Thank you
for your excellent work.

-- mrr

"Morten Reistad" <f...@last.name> wrote in message 
news:e...@laptop.reistad.name...
> In article <l...@supernews.com>,
> Abby Brown <a...@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Eric Chomko" <p...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:b...@o8g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>>> Has anyone created a copy machine of an old system using an
>>> FPGA? I
...
>>I am in the process of doing a PDP-1.  My  background is high
>>performance computers so it is a high performance design.
>
> Do you pipeline it? Any issues?

The current design is not pipelined.  Ultimately, I expect it 
will be pipelined and latched.

> A PDP1 is cool. Please tell when you have a production run. If
> I have the money, I may shell out for a kit suitable for an
> economist to assemble.

I can make the board and chip design available.

> But a PDP6, or a '10 with a modern performance design would
> be ultracool.

That would be a group effort.  I have an emotional attachment to 
PDP-1s.  I spent many happy hours playing Spacewar on a PDP-1 
and learned to program on it as well.

Gary