Call me a sadist, but I tend to cruise through
the license agreements
and EULAs before installing software to make sure I'm not being
victimized by using someone's application.  I wanted to bring my S3E
starter kit back up to prototype Xilinx-based algorithms while
employed by a particularly Altera-friendly group.  Loading ISE 12.1, I
not only find lawyer-speak that's longer than Facebook privacy policy
but see that:

  "Webtalk" is a required component to run Webpack.

A quote from the second page of legalese: "Please note that WebTalk
will collect and transmit certain data that may contain (or be
correlated to reveal, primarily via the Authorization Codes data)
personally identifiable information.  By agreeing to this Agreement,
you hereby give your consent (on behalf of Licensee and Users) for
Xilinx to use and disclose this information anywhere in the world for
the purposes and as described in this Agreement."

Crud.

Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
Xilinx?  I just want to prototype some stuff and do NOT like my
computer to leak information out into the world beyond my control.  At
the moment my form of control is to not install ISE.  To not use
Xilinx.

Hey - at least it's not like Cadence who says that anything I send
them - designs, etc - effectively becomes public domain.  But it
leaves a seriously bad taste in my mouth.

- John_H

On May 22, 7:50=A0pm, John_H
<newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
> things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
> Xilinx?

After some searching and poking around, it appears ISE 12.1 is the
first to force Webtalk onto Webpack users.  I finally found where to
get Webpack 11.5 which - according to Xilinx info - allows Webtalk to
be disabled on install.

I'll see if I hit any "gotchas" along the way.

On Sat, 22 May 2010 18:51:57 -0700 (PDT), John_H
<n...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:

>On May 22, 7:50 pm, John_H <newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
>> things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
>> Xilinx?
>
>After some searching and poking around, it appears ISE 12.1 is the
>first to force Webtalk onto Webpack users.  I finally found where to
>get Webpack 11.5 which - according to Xilinx info - allows Webtalk to
>be disabled on install.
>
>I'll see if I hit any "gotchas" along the way.

I wonder what that means for running 12.1 on a machine without network
access...

- Brian (posting from the stone age)

On May 23, 6:14=A0am, Brian Drummond
<brian_drumm...@btconnect.com>
wrote:
>
> >I'll see if I hit any "gotchas" along the way.
>
> I wonder what that means for running 12.1 on a machine without network
> access...
>
> - Brian (posting from the stone age)

The Webtalk FAQ suggests that the html file with all the info will
simply be saved for the next time a connection is present.  Having a
machine disconnected from the internet won't keep the designer from
using the product.

As far as "gotchas" it seems 11.1 won't even install on my 64-bit
Vista machine.

On Sun, 23 May 2010 04:53:50 -0700 (PDT), John_H
<n...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:

>On May 23, 6:14 am, Brian Drummond <brian_drumm...@btconnect.com>
>wrote:
>>
>> >I'll see if I hit any "gotchas" along the way.
>>
>> I wonder what that means for running 12.1 on a machine without network
>> access...
>>
>> - Brian (posting from the stone age)
>
>The Webtalk FAQ suggests that the html file with all the info will
>simply be saved for the next time a connection is present.  Having a
>machine disconnected from the internet won't keep the designer from
>using the product.
>
>As far as "gotchas" it seems 11.1 won't even install on my 64-bit
>Vista machine.

10.1 (and 11.1?) Webpack were only supposed to install on 32-bit
machines.
However, I tried it on OpenSuse 11 64-bit because the Suse Installer
claimed it could install 32-bit compatibility libs.  I only needed to
comment out the "exit" in the 32-bit test in the setup script, and it
installed and worked fine. 

Problems with 64-bit Vista may be a bit more deep seated though. Vista
sounded like one big "gotcha" for  a lot of people.

- Brian (for stone age, read Win2000sp4)

John_H <n...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
> Call me a sadist, but I tend to cruise through the license agreements
> and EULAs before installing software to make sure I'm not being
> victimized by using someone's application.  I wanted to bring my S3E
> starter kit back up to prototype Xilinx-based algorithms while
> employed by a particularly Altera-friendly group.  Loading ISE 12.1, I
> not only find lawyer-speak that's longer than Facebook privacy policy
> but see that:

>   "Webtalk" is a required component to run Webpack.

> A quote from the second page of legalese: "Please note that WebTalk
> will collect and transmit certain data that may contain (or be
> correlated to reveal, primarily via the Authorization Codes data)
> personally identifiable information.  By agreeing to this Agreement,
> you hereby give your consent (on behalf of Licensee and Users) for
> Xilinx to use and disclose this information anywhere in the world for
> the purposes and as described in this Agreement."

> Crud.

> Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
> things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
> Xilinx?  I just want to prototype some stuff and do NOT like my
> computer to leak information out into the world beyond my control.  At
> the moment my form of control is to not install ISE.  To not use
> Xilinx.

> Hey - at least it's not like Cadence who says that anything I send
> them - designs, etc - effectively becomes public domain.  But it
> leaves a seriously bad taste in my mouth.

http://lekernel.net/blog/?p=1023
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

On May 23, 12:41=A0pm, Uwe Bonnes
<b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-
darmstadt.de> wrote:
>
> http://lekernel.net/blog/?p=3D1023

Many thanks for finding the blog.

On May 22, 6:50=A0pm, John_H
<newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:
> Call me a sadist, but I tend to cruise through the license agreements
> and EULAs before installing software to make sure I'm not being
> victimized by using someone's application. =A0I wanted to bring my S3E
> starter kit back up to prototype Xilinx-based algorithms while
> employed by a particularly Altera-friendly group. =A0Loading ISE 12.1, I
> not only find lawyer-speak that's longer than Facebook privacy policy
> but see that:
>
> =A0 "Webtalk" is a required component to run Webpack.
>
> A quote from the second page of legalese: "Please note that WebTalk
> will collect and transmit certain data that may contain (or be
> correlated to reveal, primarily via the Authorization Codes data)
> personally identifiable information. =A0By agreeing to this Agreement,
> you hereby give your consent (on behalf of Licensee and Users) for
> Xilinx to use and disclose this information anywhere in the world for
> the purposes and as described in this Agreement."
>
> Crud.
>
> Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
> things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
> Xilinx? =A0I just want to prototype some stuff and do NOT like my
> computer to leak information out into the world beyond my control. =A0At
> the moment my form of control is to not install ISE. =A0To not use
> Xilinx.
>
> Hey - at least it's not like Cadence who says that anything I send
> them - designs, etc - effectively becomes public domain. =A0But it
> leaves a seriously bad taste in my mouth.
>
> - John_H

Altera does this as well, but offers the carrot approach instead. Turn
on web talk, and you get to run SignalTap. Xilinx apparently is going
the other route, which I find a bit troubling. However, it is easy
enough to deal with. Install a windows firewall, and block the
application from sending. Unfortunately, this is becoming more and
more common, and you would be surprised at how much traffic comes out
of the average PC without the owners knowledge these days.

If you want to be absolutely sure your firewall is working, run
Wireshark on another system (or, if you are the trusting sort, the
same machine), fire off a build, and see if anything crosses the wire
that looks like it came from a Xilinx tool. It's using https, so you
will probably have to filter on headers.

On Sat, 22 May 2010 16:50:55 -0700 (PDT), John_H
<n...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:

>Call me a sadist, but I tend to cruise through the license agreements
>and EULAs before installing software to make sure I'm not being
>victimized by using someone's application.  I wanted to bring my S3E
>starter kit back up to prototype Xilinx-based algorithms while
>employed by a particularly Altera-friendly group.  Loading ISE 12.1, I
>not only find lawyer-speak that's longer than Facebook privacy policy
>but see that:
>
>  "Webtalk" is a required component to run Webpack.
>
>A quote from the second page of legalese: "Please note that WebTalk
>will collect and transmit certain data that may contain (or be
>correlated to reveal, primarily via the Authorization Codes data)
>personally identifiable information.  By agreeing to this Agreement,
>you hereby give your consent (on behalf of Licensee and Users) for
>Xilinx to use and disclose this information anywhere in the world for
>the purposes and as described in this Agreement."
>
>Crud.
>
>Anyone know of the last Webpack I could get that doesn't transmit
>things like my constraints, devices, and authorization codes back to
>Xilinx?  I just want to prototype some stuff and do NOT like my
>computer to leak information out into the world beyond my control.  At
>the moment my form of control is to not install ISE.  To not use
>Xilinx.

There is still yet weirder complication to this issue. Even if you
install a regular license and check the webtalk box off, ISE will use
a webpack license if the part you're using is available in the webpack
and will override your webtalk selection. The only option seems to be
to remove the webpack license from your computer.
-- 
Muzaffer Kal

DSPIA INC.
ASIC/FPGA Design Services

http://www.dspia.com

On May 30, 3:42=A0pm, Muzaffer Kal
<k...@dspia.com> wrote:
> There is still yet weirder complication to this issue. Even if you
> install a regular license and check the webtalk box off, ISE will use
> a webpack license if the part you're using is available in the webpack
> and will override your webtalk selection. The only option seems to be
> to remove the webpack license from your computer.

Hmm, there must be Xilinx customers, who chave quite deeply secret
designs, and this chatter must be a real concern to them ?
 Sounds like the only sure way, is to ring fence the machine from the
internet completely - which makes SW updates more time consuming. -
and this might even dictate TWO PCs on a designer's desktop : one for
the valuable IP designs, and a net-hack that can chatter away ?
-jg