I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.

Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on 
an affordable solution.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:11:21 +0100, Fredxx
wrote:

> I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
> 
> Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice
> on an affordable solution.

You should contact a certification lab in your area. CE and UL are mostly 
a lot of paperwork with a small amount of actual testing. They are 
designed to be fee generators, and in CEs case trade barriers, do there 
isn't going to be a cheap way to do it. FCC is easier because it's based 
on physics not on the whims of bureaucrats, you can do FCC certification 
in a few hours because it's just a matter of measuring the emissions of 
the system, you are either within bounds or not.
 

<f...@spam.com> wrote:

>
>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>
>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on 
>an affordable solution.

If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
sticker says you take responsibility for the product.

If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.

This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html

If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
ofcourse).

The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

"Nico Coesel" <n...@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
news:4...@news.planet.nl...
> <f...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
>>an affordable solution.
>
> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>
> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>
> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>
> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
> ofcourse).
>
> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>
> -- 
> Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
> indicates you are not using the right tools...
> nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
> --------------------------------------------------------------

The two replies above do not accurately reflect the practical and legal 
situation in the UK with regard to CE marking.
You can just put a sticker on your product and a declaration (mandatory) in 
the manual and you may get away with it. If your product is investigated and 
does not comply with the regulations then when they discover that you have 
done no testing at all Trading Standards (the UK authority which enforces CE 
marking of electrical and electronic devices) will throw the book at you.
If you have done proper testing and have some evidence (in which case it is 
unlikely that you will have any problems anyway) they will discuss the issue 
with you in a sensible way and give you time to fix things.

You need to test for radiated RF emmissions, susceptibility, electrostatic 
discharge susceptibility (8kV sparks to any exposed part), power surges from 
anins or power supply. If you are connected to the mains you must also test 
for mains pollution as well.
You must also comply with ROHS and WEEE regulations.

A lot of small organisations don't bother with some or all of this - for 
obvious reasons. If you are going to spend money its worth going to a decent 
lab who will advise you about what you need to do. If you are short of cash 
then you should understand the rules yourself.

My experience is that it is unusual for a device to pass all the tests 
without some tweaks to the design.

I don't know your circumstances but my advice is that you are taking a big 
risk with customers and enforcers if you are going te sell a lot of stuff 
and don't test.
If you are selling a few parts you have a good chance of getting away with 
it - but you are screwing your customers by claiming things which you 
haven't tested and they will never forgive you if they find out.

I'ts all horrible - good luck.

Michael Kellett

"General Schvantzkoph" <s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:8...@mid.individual.net...
> On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:11:21 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
>
>> I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>> Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice
>> on an affordable solution.
>
> You should contact a certification lab in your area. CE and UL are mostly
> a lot of paperwork with a small amount of actual testing. They are
> designed to be fee generators, and in CEs case trade barriers, do there
> isn't going to be a cheap way to do it. FCC is easier because it's based
> on physics not on the whims of bureaucrats, you can do FCC certification
> in a few hours because it's just a matter of measuring the emissions of
> the system, you are either within bounds or not.
>

I have, and we're talking about £1,500 just for a pre-test, and £3,000 for 
final testing and documents.  £300 just for a plots is OTT.

"Nico Coesel" <n...@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
news:4...@news.planet.nl...
> <f...@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
>>an affordable solution.
>
> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>
> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>
> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>
> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
> ofcourse).
>
> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>

I am aware that you can self certify, but I wanted to collate some evidence 
that it would actually pass the EMC requirements, especially for radiated 
emissions.  I'm very confident about the rest.

I can see the cost of a spectrum analyser is a fraction of the cost of any 
assessment or testing by an EMC lab.  Many thanks for the pointer and am 
looking on eBay for suitable equipment.

One thing that does bother me still, is sourcing wideband aerials suitable 
for measure field strength.

Many thanks.

"Michael Kellett" <n...@nospam.com> wrote in message 
news:V...@bt.com...
>
> "Nico Coesel" <n...@puntnl.niks> wrote in message 
> news:4...@news.planet.nl...
>> <f...@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>>
>>>Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice 
>>>on
>>>an affordable solution.
>>
>> If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
>> putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
>> sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
>>
>> If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
>> company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
>> will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
>> analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
>>
>> This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
>> http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
>>
>> If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
>> ofcourse).
>>
>> The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
>>
>> -- 
>> Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
>> indicates you are not using the right tools...
>> nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The two replies above do not accurately reflect the practical and legal 
> situation in the UK with regard to CE marking.
> You can just put a sticker on your product and a declaration (mandatory) 
> in the manual and you may get away with it. If your product is 
> investigated and does not comply with the regulations then when they 
> discover that you have done no testing at all Trading Standards (the UK 
> authority which enforces CE marking of electrical and electronic devices) 
> will throw the book at you.
> If you have done proper testing and have some evidence (in which case it 
> is unlikely that you will have any problems anyway) they will discuss the 
> issue with you in a sensible way and give you time to fix things.

That is perhaps the primary reason I want some evidence of compliance 
testing.

> You need to test for radiated RF emmissions, susceptibility, electrostatic 
> discharge susceptibility (8kV sparks to any exposed part), power surges 
> from anins or power supply. If you are connected to the mains you must 
> also test for mains pollution as well.
> You must also comply with ROHS and WEEE regulations.
>

ROHS is easy to comply with if sourcing known components from reputable 
companies.

> A lot of small organisations don't bother with some or all of this - for 
> obvious reasons. If you are going to spend money its worth going to a 
> decent lab who will advise you about what you need to do. If you are short 
> of cash then you should understand the rules yourself.
>
> My experience is that it is unusual for a device to pass all the tests 
> without some tweaks to the design.
>

That is the concern!!

> I don't know your circumstances but my advice is that you are taking a big 
> risk with customers and enforcers if you are going te sell a lot of stuff 
> and don't test.
> If you are selling a few parts you have a good chance of getting away with 
> it - but you are screwing your customers by claiming things which you 
> haven't tested and they will never forgive you if they find out.
>
> I'ts all horrible - good luck.

Many thanks.

On 8/18/2010 5:11 PM, Fredxx wrote:
> I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>
> Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
> an affordable solution.
>
>
Hi Fred,
I have no idea if this is appropriate to your situation, but you might 
avoid a lot of the CE compliance issues by using a wall-wart or somesuch 
which is already CE marked. Then all the mains powered stuff is 
pre-certified by someone else. Get one with a ferrite thingy near the DC 
jack!
HTH., Syms.

"Fredxx" <f...@spam.com> wrote
in message 
news:i4jb3m$5nq$2...@news.eternal-september.org...

> I am aware that you can self certify, but I wanted to collate some 
> evidence that it would actually pass the EMC requirements, especially for 
> radiated emissions.  I'm very confident about the rest.

There is a few hands-on test that I always do to get an idea if my design 
has weaknesses:
-Does it work when I call someone with my cellphone and put the phone over 
my electronics (remember to make noise to get max radiation).
-Does it block my cellphone? You may try a FM radio closeby to see how bad 
it is.. Compare with similar products.

> I can see the cost of a spectrum analyser is a fraction of the cost of any 
> assessment or testing by an EMC lab.  Many thanks for the pointer and am 
> looking on eBay for suitable equipment.

If your project cant afford a test, then its unlikely that you will ever get 
sued for not being within specs. You are just "noise" in the marked.


On the other hand, be sure that nobody can get killed by touching your 
product. And that it doesnt burn down the building if something fails.
Then you can put the CE mark on it and sleep well at nights.

"Symon" <s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:i4jc0c$e1a$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 8/18/2010 5:11 PM, Fredxx wrote:
>> I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
>>
>> Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice 
>> on
>> an affordable solution.
>>
>>
> Hi Fred,
> I have no idea if this is appropriate to your situation, but you might 
> avoid a lot of the CE compliance issues by using a wall-wart or somesuch 
> which is already CE marked. Then all the mains powered stuff is 
> pre-certified by someone else. Get one with a ferrite thingy near the DC 
> jack!

Many thanks.  I was already intending to use an external wall-wart.  As you 
say this circumvents much testing.  The total power dissipation is likely to 
be around 3W in any case.