Development/Experimenter's kits

Does anybody have any experience using the kits below?

http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_niomite.htm

http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_quicgate.htm

Looks like the only one currently available is the Quicgate board. I'm 
looking for something cheap and simple to learn VHDL and the Altera Quartus 
design tools. Right now I want to stick with Altera since one of our sister 
companies has used the Cyclone III device with and ARM IP core. Sooner or 
later I'm going to have to be responsible for supporting the design at our 
location. The free version of the design tools looks like it should fit my 
needs for now.

Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one from Altera 
is rather expensive. How ever there is one that claims to be compatible. And 
for a whole lot less money.

http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.html

Anybody used one of these?

Regards;

Leland C. Scott

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better 
than the
animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your 
counsel
nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains 
rest
lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

Samuel Adams, (1722-1803)

On 05/22/2013 04:38 PM, Leland C. Scott wrote:
> Does anybody have any experience using the kits below?
>
> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_niomite.htm
>
> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_quicgate.htm
>
> Looks like the only one currently available is the Quicgate board. I'm
> looking for something cheap and simple to learn VHDL and the Altera Quartus
> design tools. Right now I want to stick with Altera since one of our sister
> companies has used the Cyclone III device with and ARM IP core. Sooner or
> later I'm going to have to be responsible for supporting the design at our
> location. The free version of the design tools looks like it should fit my
> needs for now.
>
> Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one from Altera
> is rather expensive. How ever there is one that claims to be compatible. And
> for a whole lot less money.
>
> http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.html
>
> Anybody used one of these?
>
> Regards;
>
> Leland C. Scott
>
> "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
> than the
> animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your
> counsel
> nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains
> rest
> lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
>
> Samuel Adams, (1722-1803)

You may have a look at Terasic's DE0-Nano board 
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?No=593. It has the 
programming cable included on the board: you only need a conventional 
USB cable. And it also has some peripherials (A/D, accelerometer, some 
leds and some (very small!) switches and buttons.

And no, I have no connection to them -I am just happy with this board!

Pere

"Leland C. Scott" <kc8ldo@arrl.net> writes:

> Does anybody have any experience using the kits below?
>
> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_niomite.htm
>
> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_quicgate.htm

I don't but are you really interested in a Cyclone II device? Arrow has
some small and cheap boards, I have one of the early BeMicro boards
which cost about $50.

> Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one from Altera 
> is rather expensive. How ever there is one that claims to be compatible. And 
> for a whole lot less money.

Rather amusingly, the cheapest way to get a USB Blaster has been the MAX
II Development Kit from Altera. Other boards usually have just
USB. Still, worth considering I suppose.

Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
> > Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one from
> > Altera is rather expensive.  How ever there is one that claims to be
> > compatible.  And for a whole lot less money.
> 
> Rather amusingly, the cheapest way to get a USB Blaster has been the MAX
> II Development Kit from Altera. Other boards usually have just
> USB. Still, worth considering I suppose.

The MAX II devkit is either a USB blaster or a MAX II configured by a
switch, you can't choose both (in theory you could loop the MAX II into the
blaster JTAG chain, but they don't do it)

The USB Blaster 'clones' I think are copies of this:
http://ixo-jtag.sourceforge.net/
or this:
http://fpga4u.epfl.ch/wiki/FX2

One thing you don't get with clones is active serial or passive serial
programming modes for which the official device has extra pins, you just get
JTAG.  Not that I imagine that's a major problem for most recent devices.

Theo

Anssi,

No I'm not specifically interested in the Cyclone II device. That just 
happened to be what was on
the board. The design I may get involved with, service and maybe maintenance 
issues, however I believe uses a Cyclone III device. The other kit, which 
looks better from a learning stand point, from

 http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.htmlhas the Cyclone IV device on it and currently lists  for US $79. It includesthe programming dongle on board too, which otherwise would have been anextra cost.Regard;Leland C. Scott "We are not anti-immigrant, we arepro-immigrant.  The government is moreconcerned about people makingcounterfeit Gucci handbags than peoplemaking counterfeit Social Security cards."MIKE CUTLER"Anssi Saari" <as@sci.fi> wrote in messagenews:vg3bo81kj9g.fsf@coffee.modeemi.fi...> "Leland C. Scott" <kc8ldo@arrl.net> writes:>>> Does anybody have any experience using the kits below?>>>> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_niomite.htm>>>> http://www.dallaslogic.com/prod_quicgate.htm>> I don't but are you really interested in a Cyclone II device? Arrow has> some small and cheap boards, I have one of the early BeMicro boards> which cost about $50.>>> Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one fromAltera>> is rather expensive. How ever there is one that claims to be compatible.And>> for a whole lot less money.>> Rather amusingly, the cheapest way to get a USB Blaster has been the MAX> II Development Kit from Altera. Other boards usually have just> USB. Still, worth considering I suppose.

Theo,

I looked at the links you included. Seems like the one I was looking at can 
do more. The USB programming cable at

http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.html

claims to be a "100 % compatible drop-in replacement for Altera USBBlaster 
programming cable", no drivers have to be installed other than the official 
USB Blaster ones included with the Altera software.

I know they make the claim so that's why I was soliciting comments from 
anybody who has used the clone above just to see how compatible it really 
is. I may have to get one anyway for use on non-educational or development, 
meaning production hardware, boards at some point.

Regards;

Leland C. Scott

"There is only one boss. The customer.
And he can fire everybody in the
company from the chairman on down,
simply by spending his money somewhere
else."

-Sam Walton


"Theo Markettos" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message 
news:kno*T46zu@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
>> > Also I think I'll need a JTAG cable to program the chip. The one from
>> > Altera is rather expensive.  How ever there is one that claims to be
>> > compatible.  And for a whole lot less money.
>>
>> Rather amusingly, the cheapest way to get a USB Blaster has been the MAX
>> II Development Kit from Altera. Other boards usually have just
>> USB. Still, worth considering I suppose.
>
> The MAX II devkit is either a USB blaster or a MAX II configured by a
> switch, you can't choose both (in theory you could loop the MAX II into 
> the
> blaster JTAG chain, but they don't do it)
>
> The USB Blaster 'clones' I think are copies of this:
> http://ixo-jtag.sourceforge.net/
> or this:
> http://fpga4u.epfl.ch/wiki/FX2
>
> One thing you don't get with clones is active serial or passive serial
> programming modes for which the official device has extra pins, you just 
> get
> JTAG.  Not that I imagine that's a major problem for most recent devices.
>
> Theo 

On 05/24/2013 05:52 AM, Leland C. Scott wrote:
> Theo,
>
> I looked at the links you included. Seems like the one I was looking at can
> do more. The USB programming cable at
>
> http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.html
>
> claims to be a "100 % compatible drop-in replacement for Altera USBBlaster
> programming cable", no drivers have to be installed other than the official
> USB Blaster ones included with the Altera software.
>
> I know they make the claim so that's why I was soliciting comments from
> anybody who has used the clone above just to see how compatible it really
> is. I may have to get one anyway for use on non-educational or development,
> meaning production hardware, boards at some point.
>
> Regards;
>
> Leland C. Scott
>
> "There is only one boss. The customer.
> And he can fire everybody in the
> company from the chairman on down,
> simply by spending his money somewhere
> else."
>
> -Sam Walton
>

I have no experience with this particular clone but, as others have 
mentioned, I guess they are all based on the same design. The Terasic 
Blaster has been working here without problems.

Pere

Leland C. Scott <kc8ldo@arrl.net> wrote:
> Theo,
> 
> I looked at the links you included. Seems like the one I was looking at can 
> do more. The USB programming cable at
> 
> http://cutedigi.com/programmeremulator/altera-usb-blaster-fpga-cpld-compatible-jtag-cable.html
> 
> claims to be a "100 % compatible drop-in replacement for Altera USBBlaster 
> programming cable", no drivers have to be installed other than the official 
> USB Blaster ones included with the Altera software.

That applies to the clones too.  The official Blaster is an FT245
USB-parallel chip followed by a CPLD.  The clones either have a FT245 and
replicate the CPLD, or replicate the CPLD and FT245 together in a
microcontroller.  The contents of the CPLD aren't public, but people have
done sufficient reverse engineering of the basics to make it work.

There are clones kicking around ebay for about $10, by the way.  I'm sure
I've seen ones which look the same as the cutedigi one, though I can't find
any right now.  But for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/200901000851

I haven't tried any of these, but the USB blaster is pretty simple so I
wouldn't expect any problems.

Theo

Talking about clones, I also want to mention our EEBlaster:
http://www.entner-electronics.com/tl/index.php/eeblaster.html

I guess it is mainly interesting for Europeans (EUR 49,-, no prepayment req=
uired for European companies).

It is 100% compatible (except ancient 5V support) and also has the same spe=
ed as the Altera Blaster (I think this is not the case with ultra-cheap mic=
ro-controller only solutions).

It has its completely own circuit, especially the voltage-level translators=
 are very robust. (As some might know, the Altera Blasters Rev.C were known=
 to die when the USB-Power and JTAG-Power was applied/removed in the wrong =
sequence, there is also an official errata regarding this.)

Regards,

Thomas
www.entner-electronics.com

Thomas,

So the Altera version has a known nasty bug the kills it from simply using 
the wrong power sequencing. That's nice to know before hand.

Regards;

Leland C. Scott

"The TSA initial reaction has been to ban
  going to the restroom for the last hour of
  flying time because this is when the
  alleged terrorist went to the restroom and
  prepared his low-tech firecracker bomb.
 So, what does this really mean as a
 deterrent? What a joke, the terrorist
 simply goes to the restroom
1:15 minutes  earlier to do the dirty deed."


<thomas.entner99@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:3977226a-db9c-4cd0-90fb-919770ae9cdf@googlegroups.com...
Talking about clones, I also want to mention our EEBlaster:
http://www.entner-electronics.com/tl/index.php/eeblaster.html

I guess it is mainly interesting for Europeans (EUR 49,-, no prepayment 
required for European companies).

It is 100% compatible (except ancient 5V support) and also has the same 
speed as the Altera Blaster (I think this is not the case with ultra-cheap 
micro-controller only solutions).

It has its completely own circuit, especially the voltage-level translators 
are very robust. (As some might know, the Altera Blasters Rev.C were known 
to die when the USB-Power and JTAG-Power was applied/removed in the wrong 
sequence, there is also an official errata regarding this.)

Regards,

Thomas
www.entner-electronics.com