Have a look at our product Broadown2. We can definately support 32 bit memory. Details are here http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/broaddown2.html . Our pricing is roughly comparable to Avnet. If you are a student/academic within the area covered by our UAP program there may be discounts available. -- John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Simon" <news@gornall.net> wrote in message news:CJsKc.450$8D.12@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...> So, I have a 32-bit processor design which I'd like to move to the > implementation stage, and I was wondering which of the > currently-available boards have 32-bit wide memory... I don't really > fancy designing my own because I've never ventured near 4-layer boards, > and if I was making my own, I'd want one of the FG456 packages, and > presumably you'd have to get that professionally soldered anyway... > > As far as I can tell: > > Xilinx starter kit > ------------------ > > Pros: 32-bit wide RAM > LCD/Leds for debugging > PS2/VGA outputs > Price: $99 :-) > > Cons: > Only 1 MByte of RAM > Uses the '200 part not the '400 > No ethernet PHY > Fixed oscillator freq. (the CPU goes faster :-) > Not many user-IO's available > > > AVnet Spartan-3 evaluation kit > ------------------------------ > > Pros: '400 part used :-) > Two oscillators, socketed > Lots of IO's available > Ethernet, VGA, PS2, RS232, Leds etc. > Could potentially be a PCI card > > Cons: Only 1 MByte RAM > Not clear if the memory is 32-bit wide > Price is $399 > > > Memec DS-KIT-3SLC400-PAC > ------------------------ > > Cons: Has no memory on-board, enough said. > > > Nu Horizons Spartan3 board > -------------------------- > > Pros: Uses the '400 part, but only in the '208 package > Has D2A and A2D onboard > Has Flash RAM > Has LCD (4x24) as well as leds,buttons etc. > Has spare oscillator socket for > 20MHz operation > Price - $164 :-) > > Cons: SDRAM appears to be 16-bit wide > Only has ~20 user io due to '208 package > > > > So, nothing is perfect [grin], The AVNet one may be the best of the > bunch, despite being the most expensive, so long as it has 32-bit wide > RAM. I'd really appreciate it if someone who already has the board could > tell me :-) > > > > For the record (in case any board companies are listening :-) my ideal > board would be something like: > > - FG456 Spartan 3 '400 part > - Lots of user-IO, some with pin headers not obscure connectors > - 32+ bit wide RAM, either SRAM or SDRAM. How about a DIMM :-) > - Ethernet PHY > - Leds / buttons / LED (or LCD) display > - VGA and PS2 connectors > - PCI edge connector would be nice but not essential > > If Xilinx can do theirs for $99, I think the above could be do-able for > $200 (or $199 in marketing speak). I'd bite your hand off :-) > > Simon
Re: Memory width on Spartan-3 boards
Started by ●July 18, 2004
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
So, I have a 32-bit processor design which I'd like to move to the
implementation stage, and I was wondering which of the
currently-available boards have 32-bit wide memory... I don't really
fancy designing my own because I've never ventured near 4-layer boards,
and if I was making my own, I'd want one of the FG456 packages, and
presumably you'd have to get that professionally soldered anyway...
As far as I can tell:
Xilinx starter kit
------------------
Pros: 32-bit wide RAM
LCD/Leds for debugging
PS2/VGA outputs
Price: $99 :-)
Cons:
Only 1 MByte of RAM
Uses the '200 part not the '400
No ethernet PHY
Fixed oscillator freq. (the CPU goes faster :-)
Not many user-IO's available
AVnet Spartan-3 evaluation kit
------------------------------
Pros: '400 part used :-)
Two oscillators, socketed
Lots of IO's available
Ethernet, VGA, PS2, RS232, Leds etc.
Could potentially be a PCI card
Cons: Only 1 MByte RAM
Not clear if the memory is 32-bit wide
Price is $399
Memec DS-KIT-3SLC400-PAC
------------------------
Cons: Has no memory on-board, enough said.
Nu Horizons Spartan3 board
--------------------------
Pros: Uses the '400 part, but only in the '208 package
Has D2A and A2D onboard
Has Flash RAM
Has LCD (4x24) as well as leds,buttons etc.
Has spare oscillator socket for > 20MHz operation
Price - $164 :-)
Cons: SDRAM appears to be 16-bit wide
Only has ~20 user io due to '208 package
So, nothing is perfect [grin], The AVNet one may be the best of the
bunch, despite being the most expensive, so long as it has 32-bit wide
RAM. I'd really appreciate it if someone who already has the board could
tell me :-)
For the record (in case any board companies are listening :-) my ideal
board would be something like:
- FG456 Spartan 3 '400 part
- Lots of user-IO, some with pin headers not obscure connectors
- 32+ bit wide RAM, either SRAM or SDRAM. How about a DIMM :-)
- Ethernet PHY
- Leds / buttons / LED (or LCD) display
- VGA and PS2 connectors
- PCI edge connector would be nice but not essential
If Xilinx can do theirs for $99, I think the above could be do-able for
$200 (or $199 in marketing speak). I'd bite your hand off :-)
Simon
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
John Adair wrote:> Have a look at our product Broadown2. We can definately support 32 bit > memory. Details are here > http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/broaddown2.html . Our pricing is > roughly comparable to Avnet. If you are a student/academic within the area > covered by our UAP program there may be discounts available. >I'd seen your boards, and indeed they look pretty good - they look more like 'professional' kits than hobbyist ones though, which is both good and bad ... I like the security of having a led or switch onboard that I can use for debugging (though it would be relatively easy to use all the headers you provide to do the same, granted :-) and using standard memory interfaces is definitely a step forward :-) The reason why I didn't include your board is that there's no price available and it *looks* expensive. In my limited experience, the combination of the two means it normally *is* expensive [grin]. It also looks as though it's for professional use and, from what I understand of the summary on the page, it can only be controlled via PCI and to do anything useful (ie: custom) with it, I'd need to licence a PCI core from someone (you, Xilinx, whoever), yes ? Does the opencores PCI core work with the board ? If the board can be used (with my design, not just as an io board) without paying for a PCI core (I'm a hobbyist, as you can probably tell :-), then by all means send me a quote. If you prefer, I'll not divulge the price either :-) If your pricing is comparable, perhaps you'd want to think about putting it online - that's the main reason I ignored your board in the first place... Simon.
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
Simon wrote:> So, I have a 32-bit processor design which I'd like to move to the > implementation stage, and I was wondering which of the > currently-available boards have 32-bit wide memory... I don't really > fancy designing my own because I've never ventured near 4-layer boards, > and if I was making my own, I'd want one of the FG456 packages, and > presumably you'd have to get that professionally soldered anyway... > > As far as I can tell: > > Xilinx starter kit > ------------------ > > Pros: 32-bit wide RAM > LCD/Leds for debugging > PS2/VGA outputs > Price: $99 :-) > > Cons: > Only 1 MByte of RAM > Uses the '200 part not the '400 > No ethernet PHY > Fixed oscillator freq. (the CPU goes faster :-) > Not many user-IO's available > > > AVnet Spartan-3 evaluation kit > ------------------------------ > > Pros: '400 part used :-) > Two oscillators, socketed > Lots of IO's available > Ethernet, VGA, PS2, RS232, Leds etc. > Could potentially be a PCI card > > Cons: Only 1 MByte RAM > Not clear if the memory is 32-bit wide > Price is $399 > > > Memec DS-KIT-3SLC400-PAC > ------------------------ > > Cons: Has no memory on-board, enough said. > > > Nu Horizons Spartan3 board > -------------------------- > > Pros: Uses the '400 part, but only in the '208 package > Has D2A and A2D onboard > Has Flash RAM > Has LCD (4x24) as well as leds,buttons etc. > Has spare oscillator socket for > 20MHz operation > Price - $164 :-) > > Cons: SDRAM appears to be 16-bit wide > Only has ~20 user io due to '208 package > > > > So, nothing is perfect [grin], The AVNet one may be the best of the > bunch, despite being the most expensive, so long as it has 32-bit wide > RAM. I'd really appreciate it if someone who already has the board could > tell me :-) > > > > For the record (in case any board companies are listening :-) my ideal > board would be something like: > > - FG456 Spartan 3 '400 part > - Lots of user-IO, some with pin headers not obscure connectors > - 32+ bit wide RAM, either SRAM or SDRAM. How about a DIMM :-) > - Ethernet PHY > - Leds / buttons / LED (or LCD) display > - VGA and PS2 connectors > - PCI edge connector would be nice but not essential > > If Xilinx can do theirs for $99, I think the above could be do-able for > $200 (or $199 in marketing speak). I'd bite your hand off :-) > > SimonDon't forgot to check : - the cost of postage/delivery - if design examples are available I'm in UK and Xilinx charge US$29.2 for shipping, while Nu Horizons charge US$75.0 (and no design examples), so I ordered the Xilinx board. 1Mb RAM is quite a lot usless you use it for video/audio processing. Regarding bus width issue, you can develope a simple bus bridge / RAM controller to convert 32-bit accesses to 16-bits (provided you have wait state input on your CPU core). A few more things add to the wish list: - RS232 (already available om some boards you mentioned) - PS/2 interface x 2 (one for mouse, one for keyboard as the same time) - Audio (I2S) - SDRAM, or - SDRAM module connector ( for PC100/133 modules - you can plug one in if you wanted to use SDRAM, or if you don't need SD-RAM you can have the pins for user I/O.) - LCD module connector - and yes, Xilinx, will you guys make a starter kit with XC3S-400 pleassssssssssse 8-) - Also it would be nice if vendors can develop I/O boards for the Xilinx's kit (am I getting too demanding here? :-) Joe
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
Price for the standard board is �250 / 399 Euro / $399 plus shipping and any applying taxes in your country. The price is buried in a pdf flyer that is linked on the website, look here http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/Broaddown2_Flyer.pdf . The phy/RJ45 plug-in price is not set but should be less than �20. I'm glad to have our product thought of as "quality" and I certainly wouldn't want to produce anything less. The next batch of un-sold boards will be with us in approximately 6-8 weeks. If anyone else thinks we should have further info on website etc let me know what you think is missing and I will have the website improved to cover any gaps. The board is aimed at professional users and students but we don't mind selling to hobby engineers. The DIL headers will take stripboard as well as manufactured boards and that was deliberate feature in the board concept. Twin digit LED is available on plug-in supplied with board. You don't need a PCI license. The PCI connector can be used as an I/O connector. We have a test board that we might make into a product that already does this. We also have a free standard build on the way that will allow the board to be used as an I/O board without doing anything except programming the Broaddown2 Platform Flash device. I haven't used opencores PCI but I can't think of any reason that it should not work. -- John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Simon" <news@gornall.net> wrote in message news:jZtKc.780$b11.202@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...> John Adair wrote: > > > Have a look at our product Broadown2. We can definately support 32 bit > > memory. Details are here > > http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/broaddown2.html . Our pricing is > > roughly comparable to Avnet. If you are a student/academic within thearea> > covered by our UAP program there may be discounts available. > > > > I'd seen your boards, and indeed they look pretty good - they look more > like 'professional' kits than hobbyist ones though, which is both good > and bad ... > > I like the security of having a led or switch onboard that I can use for > debugging (though it would be relatively easy to use all the headers you > provide to do the same, granted :-) and using standard memory interfaces > is definitely a step forward :-) > > The reason why I didn't include your board is that there's no price > available and it *looks* expensive. In my limited experience, the > combination of the two means it normally *is* expensive [grin]. > > It also looks as though it's for professional use and, from what I > understand of the summary on the page, it can only be controlled via PCI > and to do anything useful (ie: custom) with it, I'd need to licence a > PCI core from someone (you, Xilinx, whoever), yes ? Does the opencores > PCI core work with the board ? > > If the board can be used (with my design, not just as an io board) > without paying for a PCI core (I'm a hobbyist, as you can probably tell > :-), then by all means send me a quote. If you prefer, I'll not divulge > the price either :-) > > If your pricing is comparable, perhaps you'd want to think about putting > it online - that's the main reason I ignored your board in the first > place... > > Simon.
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
Get us a little time and we will satisfy most of these demands by plug-ins. We are UK based so shipping to the UK should be around the �10 mark or less. Our SODIMM socket will support I/O functions. We have such a board already on the way for our own purposes. One of our standard builds (free) will support this. -- John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Joe" <joe_y@invalid_address.nospam.com> wrote in message news:cde1j4$ckh$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...> Simon wrote: > > So, I have a 32-bit processor design which I'd like to move to the > > implementation stage, and I was wondering which of the > > currently-available boards have 32-bit wide memory... I don't really > > fancy designing my own because I've never ventured near 4-layer boards, > > and if I was making my own, I'd want one of the FG456 packages, and > > presumably you'd have to get that professionally soldered anyway... > > > > As far as I can tell: > > > > Xilinx starter kit > > ------------------ > > > > Pros: 32-bit wide RAM > > LCD/Leds for debugging > > PS2/VGA outputs > > Price: $99 :-) > > > > Cons: > > Only 1 MByte of RAM > > Uses the '200 part not the '400 > > No ethernet PHY > > Fixed oscillator freq. (the CPU goes faster :-) > > Not many user-IO's available > > > > > > AVnet Spartan-3 evaluation kit > > ------------------------------ > > > > Pros: '400 part used :-) > > Two oscillators, socketed > > Lots of IO's available > > Ethernet, VGA, PS2, RS232, Leds etc. > > Could potentially be a PCI card > > > > Cons: Only 1 MByte RAM > > Not clear if the memory is 32-bit wide > > Price is $399 > > > > > > Memec DS-KIT-3SLC400-PAC > > ------------------------ > > > > Cons: Has no memory on-board, enough said. > > > > > > Nu Horizons Spartan3 board > > -------------------------- > > > > Pros: Uses the '400 part, but only in the '208 package > > Has D2A and A2D onboard > > Has Flash RAM > > Has LCD (4x24) as well as leds,buttons etc. > > Has spare oscillator socket for > 20MHz operation > > Price - $164 :-) > > > > Cons: SDRAM appears to be 16-bit wide > > Only has ~20 user io due to '208 package > > > > > > > > So, nothing is perfect [grin], The AVNet one may be the best of the > > bunch, despite being the most expensive, so long as it has 32-bit wide > > RAM. I'd really appreciate it if someone who already has the board could > > tell me :-) > > > > > > > > For the record (in case any board companies are listening :-) my ideal > > board would be something like: > > > > - FG456 Spartan 3 '400 part > > - Lots of user-IO, some with pin headers not obscure connectors > > - 32+ bit wide RAM, either SRAM or SDRAM. How about a DIMM :-) > > - Ethernet PHY > > - Leds / buttons / LED (or LCD) display > > - VGA and PS2 connectors > > - PCI edge connector would be nice but not essential > > > > If Xilinx can do theirs for $99, I think the above could be do-able for > > $200 (or $199 in marketing speak). I'd bite your hand off :-) > > > > Simon > > Don't forgot to check : > - the cost of postage/delivery > - if design examples are available > > I'm in UK and Xilinx charge US$29.2 for shipping, > while Nu Horizons charge US$75.0 (and no design > examples), so I ordered the Xilinx board. > > 1Mb RAM is quite a lot usless you use it for video/audio processing. > Regarding bus width issue, you can develope a simple bus bridge / > RAM controller to convert 32-bit accesses to 16-bits (provided you > have wait state input on your CPU core). > > A few more things add to the wish list: > - RS232 (already available om some boards you mentioned) > - PS/2 interface x 2 (one for mouse, one for keyboard as the same time) > - Audio (I2S) > - SDRAM, or > - SDRAM module connector ( for PC100/133 modules - you can plug one > in if you wanted to use SDRAM, or if you don't need SD-RAM you > can have the pins for user I/O.) > - LCD module connector > - and yes, Xilinx, will you guys make a starter kit with XC3S-400 > pleassssssssssse 8-) > > - Also it would be nice if vendors can develop I/O boards for the > Xilinx's kit (am I getting too demanding here? :-) > > Joe
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
John Adair wrote:> Get us a little time and we will satisfy most of these demands by plug-ins. > We are UK based so shipping to the UK should be around the �10 mark or less. > > Our SODIMM socket will support I/O functions. We have such a board already > on the way for our own purposes. One of our standard builds (free) will > support this. >Hi John, I saw your board, but using DDR-RAM is a bit overkill for most projects, especailly for hobbyists and students. So I assumed your board is for professionals (and therefore expensive? 8-) Also DDR-SDRAM controller design is more complex that I am not sure if I can cope with that. Possibly the DDR-SDRAM controller design already take 25% of the FPGA :-) I like the idea of having three versions XC3S400, 1000 and 1500. Having PCI connector is nice too, but I don't need that at this moment. I only want to do some experiments on designing CPU cores, that's why RS232, PS2, VGA and SRAM interface are useful for me. I don't have access to PCB manufacturing facilities so can't do my own add-on boards. I have been thinking about getting the B5-X300 from www.Burched.com, but the total cost (FPGA board + ad-on boards) is still a bit expensive. So the Xilinx's kit fit the bill. If your company will do a board like the Xilinx starter kit, but with XC3S400 part, I will certainly be very interested (if it is not too expensive) :-) Joe
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
It is very hard to hit the mark with everyone. Broaddown2 was never intended for the very cheap end. It is a fairly complex board and has manufacturing costs that go with that complexity. The main leaning to hobby electronics is that the XC3S400 is supported by Webpack and which anything bigger isn't supported. We are looking at a range of option boards for the DDR2 socket including other memory types. Watch this space. There may be some things coming out late 2004 that may be suitable for hobby electronics. Watch for product announcements or join our email list if you are interested. -- John Adair Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development Board. http://www.enterpoint.co.uk "Joe" <joe_y@invalid_address.nospam.com> wrote in message news:cde6ht$s7i$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk...> John Adair wrote: > > Get us a little time and we will satisfy most of these demands byplug-ins.> > We are UK based so shipping to the UK should be around the �10 mark orless.> > > > Our SODIMM socket will support I/O functions. We have such a boardalready> > on the way for our own purposes. One of our standard builds (free) will > > support this. > > > > Hi John, > > I saw your board, but using DDR-RAM is a bit overkill for most projects, > especailly for hobbyists and students. So I assumed your board is for > professionals (and therefore expensive? 8-) > > Also DDR-SDRAM controller design is more complex that I am not sure if I > can cope with that. Possibly the DDR-SDRAM controller design already > take 25% of the FPGA :-) > > I like the idea of having three versions XC3S400, 1000 and 1500. Having > PCI connector is nice too, but I don't need that at this moment. I only > want to do some experiments on designing CPU cores, that's why RS232, > PS2, VGA and SRAM interface are useful for me. I don't have access to > PCB manufacturing facilities so can't do my own add-on boards. > > I have been thinking about getting the B5-X300 from www.Burched.com, but > the total cost (FPGA board + ad-on boards) is still a bit expensive. So > the Xilinx's kit fit the bill. > > If your company will do a board like the Xilinx starter kit, but with > XC3S400 part, I will certainly be very interested (if it is not too > expensive) :-) > > Joe
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
Joe, According to http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/userguides/ug130.pdf, the Xilinx Spartan-3 Starter Kit board uses the Digilent expansion header. A number of peripheral boards are available at: https://digilent.us/Sales/boards.cfm#Peripheral Paul Joe wrote:><snip>> > - Also it would be nice if vendors can develop I/O boards for the > Xilinx's kit (am I getting too demanding here? :-) > > Joe
Reply by ●July 18, 20042004-07-18
Simon, There will be an Ethernet Peripheral Board available for the Xilinx Spartan-3 Starter Kit board from Digilent: https://digilent.us/Sales/Product.cfm?Prod=NET1 I physically have one of these boards right now but do not know when they will be generally available. Paul Simon wrote:> > So, I have a 32-bit processor design which I'd like to move to the > implementation stage, and I was wondering which of the > currently-available boards have 32-bit wide memory... I don't really > fancy designing my own because I've never ventured near 4-layer boards, > and if I was making my own, I'd want one of the FG456 packages, and > presumably you'd have to get that professionally soldered anyway... > > As far as I can tell: > > Xilinx starter kit > ------------------ > > Pros: 32-bit wide RAM > LCD/Leds for debugging > PS2/VGA outputs > Price: $99 :-) > > Cons: > Only 1 MByte of RAM > Uses the '200 part not the '400 > No ethernet PHY > Fixed oscillator freq. (the CPU goes faster :-) > Not many user-IO's available >
