Which Altera to buy?

On 12/4/2014 6:00 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:28:25 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>> On 12/4/2014 12:25 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> I ended up ordering this board:
>>>      http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=830
>>>
>>> If anyone has advice on how to get communication running most easily
>>> on this board, I would appreciate it.  Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Doesn't look like you have a lot of options on this board.  UART serial
>> to USB is the one comms choice.  I thought you were going to use
>> Ethernet.
>
> I plan to.  I won't receive the PHY board I bought until the end of
> December though.  If there's another option I'll use that in the time
> in-between, and possible after that.
>
> I have one of the Silicon Labs chips arriving this week, but I'll need
> to get a converter from its TQFP48 form factor to something usable by
> human beings. I may go ahead and do that anyway.  The Silicon Labs API
> is very clean and straight-forward.
>
>      http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/ethernetcontrollers/Pages/default.aspx

I'm not keeping up with your choices.  Why would you buy a chip that 
isn't on a board?  Why not use the Arduino interface?  I'm sure you can 
get Ethernet MAC modules for next to nothing.

-- 

Rick

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:06:51 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
> > I have one of the Silicon Labs chips arriving this week, but I'll need
> > to get a converter from its TQFP48 form factor to something usable by
> > human beings. I may go ahead and do that anyway.  The Silicon Labs API
> > is very clean and straight-forward.
> >
> >      http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/ethernetcontrollers/Pages/default.aspx
> 
> I'm not keeping up with your choices.  Why would you buy a chip that 
> isn't on a board?  Why not use the Arduino interface?  I'm sure you can 
> get Ethernet MAC modules for next to nothing.

It was free.  I ordered it as a sample.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

Rick C. Hodgin <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going to spend some time getting communication working between the
> FPGA and the host computer as a debugging feature of the Oppie-1 CPU.
> I will modify my Oppie-1 Debugger to receive the debug data from the
> live device and display it in execution as it goes, or step-by-step,
> as it does presently in the simulation.
> 
> I will also be able to send/receive updates to memory locations, change
> register values, reset, restart, a true remote debugging app.
> 
> Then ... on to Oppie-2.
> 
> -----
> If anyone has advice on how to get communication running most easily
> on this board, I would appreciate it.  Thank you in advance.

There are two Altera components that might be useful:

The JTAG UART is something that looks like a UART device, but runs via JTAG
which is connected to your PC using USB.  That means it's very simple to get
a text terminal up from your FPGA.  It isn't a 16550-style UART, it has a
somewhat simpler interface (and if you're using a NIOS-II processor Altera's
tools generate libraries so that printf() etc works).  That means you don't
need any extra hardware to get a serial port - you just run 'nios2-terminal'
on your PC and you get a console of whatever comes out of the JTAG UART.

System Console is an Altera (Java) app that allows you to get debug access
to your FPGA, assuming your FPGA uses AXI or Altera's Avalon interconnect,
which can be built with Altera's Qsys GUI tool for building systems-on-chip. 
Your components have AXI or Avalon interfaces, and you join them together in
Qsys GUI (wiring up buses, interrupts, setting addresses, etc).  Qsys
synthesises a network on chip for you that implements the interconnect you
wanted (so the 'buses' are actually packet switched networks).  Once you've
done that you can just drop in a debug module that allows access to those
buses from System Console via JTAG via USB.  In System Console on your PC
you can write TCL scripts to access memory, change peripheral registers,
etc.  Since it's plugged into your existing interconnect it can access
whatever is connected to it.

In our case we have both System Console and a CPU debug unit.  The debug
unit is inside the CPU and allows insertion of instructions into the
pipeline, which means we can force it to execute code to set registers etc.
We use both that mechanism and System Console to access memory.  The debug
unit is implemented using a JTAG UART, but using it as a pipe to convey
debug instructions rather than as a text terminal (we have another JTAG UART
as the console).


I'd suggest first taking the example projects supplied with the board, which
use the NIOS-II CPU, and making yourself familiar with the toolchain:
Quartus compilation
Megawizard [1]
Qsys (system-on-chip generator)
NIOS-II bare-metal software world (Eclipse editor, C compiler, Board Support
Package (BSP) of drivers for the FPGA hardware)
Programming

and only then go 'off piste'.  For an example, this is the FPGA practical
course that I teach that goes through the basics (from no HDL experience to
building a heterogenous multicore system-on-chip in 24 hours of lab time):
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/teaching/1415/ECAD+Arch/labs/
You don't have the same board but many of the concepts should still apply.

Theo

[1] Megawizard (a tool for configuring standalone IP blocks such as PLLs) is
being phased out and rolled into Qsys, but it's still relevant at the moment

On 12/4/2014 6:18 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:06:51 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>>> I have one of the Silicon Labs chips arriving this week, but I'll need
>>> to get a converter from its TQFP48 form factor to something usable by
>>> human beings. I may go ahead and do that anyway.  The Silicon Labs API
>>> is very clean and straight-forward.
>>>
>>>       http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/ethernetcontrollers/Pages/default.aspx
>>
>> I'm not keeping up with your choices.  Why would you buy a chip that
>> isn't on a board?  Why not use the Arduino interface?  I'm sure you can
>> get Ethernet MAC modules for next to nothing.
>
> It was free.  I ordered it as a sample.

Why would you *order* a chip that isn't on a board?  I have lots of 
"sample" chips I've never used because they aren't on a board.

-- 

Rick

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:17:19 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
> > It was free.  I ordered it as a sample.
> Why would you *order* a chip that isn't on a board?  I have lots of 
> "sample" chips I've never used because they aren't on a board.

I liked the API and documentation.  It's a beautiful product.  If I
ever create my own mainboard, I'll probably use two or three of that
component for those reasons.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

On 12/4/2014 7:24 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 7:17:19 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>>> It was free.  I ordered it as a sample.
>> Why would you *order* a chip that isn't on a board?  I have lots of
>> "sample" chips I've never used because they aren't on a board.
>
> I liked the API and documentation.  It's a beautiful product.  If I
> ever create my own mainboard, I'll probably use two or three of that
> component for those reasons.

I can't say I follow your reasoning.  You are using this chip which 
requires you to find a board to mount it on... but just for a few weeks. 
  Then you will use the "PHY" that you have ordered.  Then at a latter 
time you will use this chip again?  Why not just stick with this chip? 
Once you figure out how to mount it where's the down side?

-- 

Rick

rickman writes:
> I can't say I follow your reasoning. You are
> using this chip which requires you to find a
> board to mount it on... but just for a few
> weeks. Then you will use the "PHY" that you
> have ordered. Then at a latter time you will
> use this chip again? Why not just stick with
> this chip? Once you figure out how to mount
> it where's the down side?

You misunderstand because we're not having a
conversation, but only back-and-forth across a
written form where assumption and guesswork
enter in. And you already seem to have either a
natural bias against me, or are having difficulties
in understanding me, or both.

Don't worry about it though. It will all work out.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

On 12/4/2014 7:59 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> rickman writes:
>> I can't say I follow your reasoning. You are
>> using this chip which requires you to find a
>> board to mount it on... but just for a few
>> weeks. Then you will use the "PHY" that you
>> have ordered. Then at a latter time you will
>> use this chip again? Why not just stick with
>> this chip? Once you figure out how to mount
>> it where's the down side?
>
> You misunderstand because we're not having a
> conversation, but only back-and-forth across a
> written form where assumption and guesswork
> enter in. And you already seem to have either a
> natural bias against me, or are having difficulties
> in understanding me, or both.

I don't have any bias.  I read what you write.  If that is not clear I 
ask questions.  But like this time you often don't answer them.  So I am 
left not knowing what is in your mind.  This part of the conversation 
was so disjointed that I reviewed the messages you wrote, so I'm pretty 
sure I am reading it correctly.

If you don't want to discuss this with me, that's fine.  If you don't 
respond I'll stop asking. :)

-- 

Rick

Theo Markettos wrotes:
> There are two Altera components that might
> be useful...

Theo, a lot of useful information. Thank you very much.

Best regards,
Rick C. Hodgin

On 04/12/2014 23:00, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 5:28:25 PM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
>> On 12/4/2014 12:25 PM, Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> I ended up ordering this board:
>>>      http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&CategoryNo=167&No=830
>>>
>>> If anyone has advice on how to get communication running most easily
>>> on this board, I would appreciate it.  Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Doesn't look like you have a lot of options on this board.  UART serial
>> to USB is the one comms choice.  I thought you were going to use
>> Ethernet.
>
> I plan to.  I won't receive the PHY board I bought until the end of
> December though.  If there's another option I'll use that in the time
> in-between, and possible after that.
>
> I have one of the Silicon Labs chips arriving this week, but I'll need
> to get a converter from its TQFP48 form factor to something usable by
> human beings. I may go ahead and do that anyway.  The Silicon Labs API
> is very clean and straight-forward.
>
>      http://www.silabs.com/products/interface/ethernetcontrollers/Pages/default.aspx
>

I would look at Microchip's 28j60 controller, you only need a few wires 
to talk to it (SPI) and there are lots of low cost eval boards available 
on eBay and other places.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-ENC28J60-Ethernet-Network-Module-For-51-AVR-STM32-LPC-3-3V-/131299274169?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item1e920bedb9

Hans
www.ht-lab.com


>> That seems to be another $250, wow, more than the FPGA board.
>> I guess you can add one via the Arduino interface for next to
>> nothing.
>
> Best regards,
> Rick C. Hodgin
>