Looking for a Design for a Small FPGA Board

Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
purchase a board with the following specs:

-FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
shouldn't be an issue at all.
-clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
higher isn't a problem however.
-in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
-The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
volume (this is important).

I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.


-Darien

To make a complete system, what do you have/want for the system clock?  Is
there a need for an on-board oscillator?

What about power?  Are you supplying a predetermined external fixed voltage?
An external voltage to satisfy the FPGA?  Several external voltages to match
the FPGA's every whim?

Are you expecting your I/O to be 5V tolerant/compatible?

These questions and perhaps a few more might be needed to get the fully
working board.

Another thought might be to get a TQFP prototyping board (or adapter) and
wire together your own regulators, bypass, and frequency sources.  There are
100 pin TQFP packages that are pretty small - the support stuff might take
up the most room.


"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0409151507.68edc201@posting.google.com...
> Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
> this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
> online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
> no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
> was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
> slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
> one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
> little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
> a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
> could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
> purchase a board with the following specs:
>
> -FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
> preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
> shouldn't be an issue at all.
> -clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
> higher isn't a problem however.
> -in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
> FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
> -The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
> volume (this is important).
>
> I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
> specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
> aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
> to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.
>
>
> -Darien

Daragoth wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
> this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
> online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
> no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
> was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
> slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
> one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
> little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
> a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
> could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
> purchase a board with the following specs:
> 
> -FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
> preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
> shouldn't be an issue at all.
> -clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
> higher isn't a problem however.
> -in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
> FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
> -The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
> volume (this is important).
> 
> I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
> specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
> aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
> to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.

I don't want to be too pessimistic, but I expect it will be very
unlikely that you will find a board that is as small as you are asking
for.  Typically a prototyping board does not have significant size
constraints.  Instead, a proto board will be trying to fit a number of
applications which will require it to be a bit larger than just a chip
on a board.  40 x 30 mm is a very small board.  We build IO modules as
daughterboards on a PC/104 board (already a small foot print) and these
are a bit larger than you are asking for.  One of our big problems with
this format is the lack of space for components.  

I think you need to go back to designing your own.  Perhaps you can get
someone to do the layout for you?  I did my own layout for a couple of
boards and did not find it so difficult.  Is your problem one of being
able to route all the signals in a small space?  

Can you tell me why your board needs to be so tiny?  

-- 

Rick "rickman" Collins

rick.collins@XYarius.com
Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY
removed.

Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company
Specializing in DSP and FPGA design      URL http://www.arius.com
4 King Ave                               301-682-7772 Voice
Frederick, MD 21701-3110                 301-682-7666 FAX

Daragoth wrote:

> Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
> this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
> online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
> no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
> was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
> slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
> one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
> little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
> a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
> could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
> purchase a board with the following specs:
> 
> -FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
> preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
> shouldn't be an issue at all.
> -clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
> higher isn't a problem however.
> -in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
> FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
> -The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
> volume (this is important).
> 
> I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
> specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
> aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
> to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.

It sounds as if your best aproach would be to find a sufficiently
documented evaluation board that fits your needs , maybe
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=60004
(the schematics are downloadable from there) and re-design the PCB
to fit your space requirements as you suggested. I'd recommend
checking available souces for the parts before deciding on which
board to clone, some of the evaluation-board may use components
difficult to obtain for a hobbyist.

That should save you a lot of headaches compared to doing everything
from scratch.

Good Luck !

Chris

Hi Darien,

Here is a new board that may meet your needs
http://www.trenz-electronic.de/prod/proden19.htm

It's dimension is 50.7 x 43.6mm, however if you
took off the USB connector, and then used a dremel
tool, or a small mill, to route off the top egde and
the left edge (no, I'm serious:) ), then I think you
may be able to bring it down to your needed size.

You could then solder your wires to the bottom
edge connector.

Best regards,

Tony Burch
B  U  R  C  H  E  D
Simple FPGA Boards, The Most Free I/O, Easy Prototyping
http://www.burched.biz


"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0409151507.68edc201@posting.google.com...
> Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
> this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
> online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
> no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
> was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
> slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
> one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
> little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
> a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
> could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
> purchase a board with the following specs:
>
> -FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
> preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
> shouldn't be an issue at all.
> -clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
> higher isn't a problem however.
> -in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
> FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
> -The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
> volume (this is important).
>
> I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
> specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
> aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
> to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.
>
>
> -Darien

That's what I really love about this newsgroup, people recommeding
products of their direct competitors.
Kudos to you, Tony!

I designed the Trenz board. It is layouted in a way that you can cut
it in stripes without interrupting the power supply. For a dongle
product.
At 42mm x 30mm x 3.5mm it will give you 60 FPGA I/O plus configuration
and power supply, at 42mm x 20mm x 3.5mm you will have to solder every
IO to the board yourself. Are you sure that you can not squeeze it in
with these additional 2mm?

You can cut away these 2mm but it will interrupt the main power
supply, you could fix that with a wire, but this will result in a
really ugly looking board afterwards.

BTW: Can you tell us what it is that you want to build the board into?

Also, does anybody know about a source for generic usb dongle cases?
Our quantities are not large enough to have a custom case molded.

Kolja Sulimma


"Tony Burch" <tony@burched.com.au> wrote in message news:<4149187b$0$23897$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
> Hi Darien,
> 
> Here is a new board that may meet your needs
> http://www.trenz-electronic.de/prod/proden19.htm
> 
> It's dimension is 50.7 x 43.6mm, however if you
> took off the USB connector, and then used a dremel
> tool, or a small mill, to route off the top egde and
> the left edge (no, I'm serious:) ), then I think you
> may be able to bring it down to your needed size.
> 
> You could then solder your wires to the bottom
> edge connector.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Tony Burch
> B  U  R  C  H  E  D
> Simple FPGA Boards, The Most Free I/O, Easy Prototyping
> http://www.burched.biz
> 
> 
> "Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
> news:317379a8.0409151507.68edc201@posting.google.com...
> > Hi, I'm a hobbyist, and about a month and a half ago I made a post to
> > this newsgroup looking for a compact FPGA board that I could purchase
> > online in small quantities for a project I was doing.  It seemed that
> > no one knew of a board with the specs I needed (and the closest ones I
> > was able to find were the ones at www.fpgas4fun.com, but they were
> > slighty too large for what I needed), so I decided to try and design
> > one myself with PCB design software (EAGLE 4.13).  But I have very
> > little experience in PCB design and am pretty overwhelmed with created
> > a design from scratch.  So I was wondering if there was a place I
> > could download the design or (in case anyone missed my original post)
> > purchase a board with the following specs:
> >
> > -FPGA device with at least 15,000 usable gates (more would be
> > preferable).  I only need a small number of user IOs, so that
> > shouldn't be an issue at all.
> > -clock to run the FPGA with only around 4 MHz frequency range...
> > higher isn't a problem however.
> > -in-circuit reprogrammable non-volatile memory device for storing the
> > FPGA's configuration data, if the FPGA doesn't have one built-in.
> > -The board's must be able to fit with a 40 mm x 30 mm x 10 mm or less
> > volume (this is important).
> >
> > I'm planning on just soldering wires directly to the board, so no
> > specific connectors are necessary.  And I don't mind if the specs
> > aren't exactly what I need, just so long as they are relatively easy
> > to alter to my specifications.  Thanks a lot for any help.
> >
> >
> > -Darien

"John_H" <johnhandwork@mail.com> wrote in message news:<L642d.14$l1.2394@news-west.eli.net>...
> To make a complete system, what do you have/want for the system clock?  Is
> there a need for an on-board oscillator?
> 
> What about power?  Are you supplying a predetermined external fixed voltage?
> An external voltage to satisfy the FPGA?  Several external voltages to match
> the FPGA's every whim?
> 
> Are you expecting your I/O to be 5V tolerant/compatible?
> 
> These questions and perhaps a few more might be needed to get the fully
> working board.
> 
> Another thought might be to get a TQFP prototyping board (or adapter) and
> wire together your own regulators, bypass, and frequency sources.  There are
> 100 pin TQFP packages that are pretty small - the support stuff might take
> up the most room.


Yeah, I need an onboard oscillator running at a minimum of 4 MHz. 
Power is going to be coming from two fixed external sources, one at
3.43V and another at 5V.

Where would I be able to find one of these TQFP proto boards?  They
sound interesting.  Thanks.

-Darien G.

A google search on the quoted "tqfp proto" came up without a hit but had a
couple sponsor links that looked like they might fill your needs:
www.epboard.com and www.beldynsys.com .

I don't have a "preferred supplier" so a proper google search should provide
you some answers.


"Daragoth" <daragoth@kuririnmail.com> wrote in message
news:317379a8.0409180924.34c11ebc@posting.google.com...
> "John_H" <johnhandwork@mail.com> wrote in message
news:<L642d.14$l1.2394@news-west.eli.net>...
> > To make a complete system, what do you have/want for the system clock?
Is
> > there a need for an on-board oscillator?
> >
> > What about power?  Are you supplying a predetermined external fixed
voltage?
> > An external voltage to satisfy the FPGA?  Several external voltages to
match
> > the FPGA's every whim?
> >
> > Are you expecting your I/O to be 5V tolerant/compatible?
> >
> > These questions and perhaps a few more might be needed to get the fully
> > working board.
> >
> > Another thought might be to get a TQFP prototyping board (or adapter)
and
> > wire together your own regulators, bypass, and frequency sources.  There
are
> > 100 pin TQFP packages that are pretty small - the support stuff might
take
> > up the most room.
>
>
> Yeah, I need an onboard oscillator running at a minimum of 4 MHz.
> Power is going to be coming from two fixed external sources, one at
> 3.43V and another at 5V.
>
> Where would I be able to find one of these TQFP proto boards?  They
> sound interesting.  Thanks.
>
> -Darien G.

Christoph Loew <christoph@zmp.co.jp> wrote in message news:<2qs9phF13h636U1@uni-berlin.de>...
> It sounds as if your best aproach would be to find a sufficiently
> documented evaluation board that fits your needs , maybe
> http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=60004
> (the schematics are downloadable from there) and re-design the PCB
> to fit your space requirements as you suggested. I'd recommend
> checking available souces for the parts before deciding on which
> board to clone, some of the evaluation-board may use components
> difficult to obtain for a hobbyist.
> 
> That should save you a lot of headaches compared to doing everything
> from scratch.
> 
> Good Luck !

Thanks for the info, I'll definately consider doing so.  What are the
dimensions of the board you referred to, just so I know how much I
would have to reduce it by?  I can't check the schematics until I
download the software for it.  But I wonder if I'll be able to reduce
it enough to fit my specifications.  Would a double-sided board be the
solution?

-Darien

Have you looked at the development boards at www.digilent.com

Xilinx only, but the lowest priced ones I've seen anywhere on the web...