I am pretty new to the Xilinx world and I am seeking the answers to my questions here. The requirements are listed here, 1. 3.3V or 5V parts (compatible with TTL/HTCmos) 2. no smaller than XC95288 3. supported by free webpack 4. easy to deal with (PLCC or TQ or PQFP or PGA, no BGA) 5. more than 80 I/O pins 6. can buy in small quantities (3, for example). 7. low cost XC95288/XC95288XL fit 1,2,3,4,5,6 but I think there might exist cheaper parts. Less than $10 will be considered good enough. Thanks. BTW, is it easy to move a CPLD design (VHDL) to FPGA? It has mostly adders (5 MHz or lower) and state machines (20MHz). Thanks. If so, would you also let me know what FPGA family to look at, with those requirements applied? vax, 9000
which xilinx CPLD to select?
Started by ●October 15, 2004
Reply by ●October 15, 20042004-10-15
"vax, 9000" wrote:> > I am pretty new to the Xilinx world and I am seeking the answers to my > questions here. The requirements are listed here, > 1. 3.3V or 5V parts (compatible with TTL/HTCmos) > 2. no smaller than XC95288 > 3. supported by free webpack > 4. easy to deal with (PLCC or TQ or PQFP or PGA, no BGA) > 5. more than 80 I/O pins > 6. can buy in small quantities (3, for example). > 7. low cost > > XC95288/XC95288XL fit 1,2,3,4,5,6 but I think there might exist cheaper > parts. Less than $10 will be considered good enough. Thanks. > > BTW, is it easy to move a CPLD design (VHDL) to FPGA? It has mostly adders > (5 MHz or lower) and state machines (20MHz). Thanks. If so, would you also > let me know what FPGA family to look at, with those requirements applied?I can tell you that item 1, 5 and 7 are hard to combine. The Xilinx parts that might do best are the Coolrunner (not Coolrunner II) XCR3128XL or larger. But they won't be cheap depending on how you define cheap. Expect to pay around $15 or so in 100's. If you need the XCR3256XL or larger the price goes up very quickly! I believe they want over $40 for the XCR3512XL. But prices are always negotialble. Lattice has some parts as well, the 5000MX family. But be careful about the 5 volt tolerance, it has limitations. Getting 5 volt tolerance in a PLD or FPGA is getting hard to find. If you don't need Flash non-volatility, look at the ACEX parts (EP1Kxx) from Altera. This is one of the more modern, low-cost, 5 volt tolerant FPGAs around. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
Reply by ●October 15, 20042004-10-15
In article <41700734.669C9E48@yahoo.com>, rickman <john@bluepal.net> wrote:>"vax, 9000" wrote: >> >> 1. 3.3V or 5V parts (compatible with TTL/HTCmos) >> 7. low cost > >I can tell you that item 1, 5 and 7 are hard to combine. The Xilinx >parts that might do best are the Coolrunner (not Coolrunner II)If I remember right, I think the best combination of 5V tolerant and cheap is XC9500XL. Straight XC9500 has a price premium now, and XV is not 5V tolerant. -- Ben Jackson <ben@ben.com> http://www.ben.com/
Reply by ●October 15, 20042004-10-15
Ben Jackson wrote:> > In article <41700734.669C9E48@yahoo.com>, rickman <john@bluepal.net> wrote: > >"vax, 9000" wrote: > >> > >> 1. 3.3V or 5V parts (compatible with TTL/HTCmos) > >> 7. low cost > > > >I can tell you that item 1, 5 and 7 are hard to combine. The Xilinx > >parts that might do best are the Coolrunner (not Coolrunner II) > > If I remember right, I think the best combination of 5V tolerant and > cheap is XC9500XL. Straight XC9500 has a price premium now, and XV is > not 5V tolerant.I don't have full pricing in front of me, but the newest CPLD part from Xilinx that has 5 volt tolerance is the XCR3xxxXL family, so I would expect these to be the cheapest. They are 3.3 volt supply and are near zero power as well. But like most CPLDs they get very pricey as the size goes up! -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
Reply by ●October 15, 20042004-10-15
In article <41701FEE.E5673855@yahoo.com>, rickman <john@bluepal.net> wrote:>Ben Jackson wrote: >> If I remember right, I think the best combination of 5V tolerant and >> cheap is XC9500XL. Straight XC9500 has a price premium now, and XV is >> not 5V tolerant. > >I don't have full pricing in front of me, but the newest CPLD part from >Xilinx that has 5 volt tolerance is the XCR3xxxXL family,I guess the original poster wanted "5V TTL compatible". The XC9500XL family will take Vccio = 5V and drive 5V out. The XCR3xxxXL will accept 5V in but Vccio = Vcc = 3.3V. Thanks for pointing out that family -- I hadn't really considered that distinction before. -- Ben Jackson <ben@ben.com> http://www.ben.com/
Reply by ●October 15, 20042004-10-15
Xilinx 9500XL is the best choice for interfacing to 5V logic. Yet it's not capable of driving levels up to 5V, just 5V input tolerance. You can't get a single device for < 10$ in small or medium quantities. 9500XL has a maximum of logic ressources compared to coolrunner or even coolrunner2. Disadvantages of 9500xl: lot's of power consumption, drives only 8mA low, 4mA high. Use a mix of 95144xl and 9572xl for cost optimisation. If you need a quick and flexible solution for about 12-15$, use the smallest spartan3 device with an XCF01S platform flash and level shifters. MIKE
Reply by ●October 16, 20042004-10-16
Hi Vax, First, I should point out that Altera's mature MAX 7000 family is likely sufficient and widely available. The MAX 7000S is a 5.0V device with up to 256 macrocells. The MAX 7000AE is a 3.3V device with up to 512 macrocells. Both are available in a wide array of cheap, easy-to-use packages. The new low-cost Max II family from Altera also meets many of your requirements. Max II is 3.3V compatible (both power rail voltage and I/O voltage). The EPM570 device offers 570 LEs, or roughly 440 macrocells. It is supported by the free Quartus II Web Edition software, available from our web site. There are three packages: a 100-pin TQFP (with 76 user I/Os), a 144-pin TQFP (with 116 user I/Os), and a 256-pin FBGA (with 160 user I/Os). The downside is that you can't buy the EPM570 today -- only the EPM1270 is available. But it is shipping in a pin-compatible 144-pin TQFP, so you could prototype with it and plug in a EPM570 in early 2005 when it is available. I don't know the unit prices of any of our chips so I can't help you out there. If we get the Web Edition software from www.altera.com, you can try out all of our CPLD families to see how they do for density & performance. Your VHDL should work (provided it is generic) in any of our devices.> BTW, is it easy to move a CPLD design (VHDL) to FPGA? It has mostly adders > (5 MHz or lower) and state machines (20MHz). Thanks. If so, would you also > let me know what FPGA family to look at, with those requirements applied?Max II's core fabric is more like an FPGA -- it uses LUT-based Logic Elements (LEs) instead of AND-OR macrocells. It also features a segmented, island-style routing architecture instead of the global fabrics found in older CPLD families. This family is perfect for you needs. Generic VHDL should run push-button on Max II, or any other CPLD/FPGA product from pretty much any vendor. Just change the target device & push compile! And the speed targets you mention are slow by modern FPGA/CPLD standards, so they sound doable. Good luck, Paul Leventis Altera Corp.
Reply by ●October 16, 20042004-10-16
Thank you guys for suggestions. They are very helpful. I decided to complete my design with two pieces of XC95144XL (I have some), and take a look of XCR3000XL and EPM570 once the design works. vax, 9000 wrote:> I am pretty new to the Xilinx world and I am seeking the answers to my > questions here. The requirements are listed here, > 1. 3.3V or 5V parts (compatible with TTL/HTCmos) > 2. no smaller than XC95288 > 3. supported by free webpack > 4. easy to deal with (PLCC or TQ or PQFP or PGA, no BGA) > 5. more than 80 I/O pins > 6. can buy in small quantities (3, for example). > 7. low cost > > XC95288/XC95288XL fit 1,2,3,4,5,6 but I think there might exist cheaper > parts. Less than $10 will be considered good enough. Thanks. > > BTW, is it easy to move a CPLD design (VHDL) to FPGA? It has mostly adders > (5 MHz or lower) and state machines (20MHz). Thanks. If so, would you also > let me know what FPGA family to look at, with those requirements applied? > > vax, 9000
Reply by ●October 17, 20042004-10-17
Ben Jackson <ben@ben.com> wrote: : In article <41701FEE.E5673855@yahoo.com>, rickman <john@bluepal.net> wrote: : >Ben Jackson wrote: : >> If I remember right, I think the best combination of 5V tolerant and : >> cheap is XC9500XL. Straight XC9500 has a price premium now, and XV is : >> not 5V tolerant. : > : >I don't have full pricing in front of me, but the newest CPLD part from : >Xilinx that has 5 volt tolerance is the XCR3xxxXL family, : I guess the original poster wanted "5V TTL compatible". The XC9500XL : family will take Vccio = 5V and drive 5V out. The XCR3xxxXL will accept : 5V in but Vccio = Vcc = 3.3V. XC95XL takes only 3.3 Volt VCCIO, but is 5 Volt tolerant at the input -- Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Reply by ●October 17, 20042004-10-17
Uwe Bonnes wrote:> > Ben Jackson <ben@ben.com> wrote: > : In article <41701FEE.E5673855@yahoo.com>, rickman <john@bluepal.net> wrote: > : >Ben Jackson wrote: > : >> If I remember right, I think the best combination of 5V tolerant and > : >> cheap is XC9500XL. Straight XC9500 has a price premium now, and XV is > : >> not 5V tolerant. > : > > : >I don't have full pricing in front of me, but the newest CPLD part from > : >Xilinx that has 5 volt tolerance is the XCR3xxxXL family, > > : I guess the original poster wanted "5V TTL compatible". The XC9500XL > : family will take Vccio = 5V and drive 5V out. The XCR3xxxXL will accept > : 5V in but Vccio = Vcc = 3.3V. > > XC95XL takes only 3.3 Volt VCCIO, but is 5 Volt tolerant at the inputYes, 5 volt TTL only requires the output to rise up to 2.4 volts. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
