computer upgrade time.

Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon 
1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K, 
matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept 
up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using 
these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).  
I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the 
room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to 
consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I 
admit I am being lazy.

-- 
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930     Fax 401/884-7950
email ray@andraka.com  
http://www.andraka.com  

 "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little 
  temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                                          -Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:
> Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon
> 1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K,
> matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept
> up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using
> these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).
> I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the
> room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to
> consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I
> admit I am being lazy.
>
> --
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930     Fax 401/884-7950
> email ray@andraka.com
> http://www.andraka.com
>     I am using a 2.6 GHZ P4 , XP PRO, DELL GX270, 2GB RAM, 7200 RPM IDE.
It takes 7 hours to  PAR for a V6000 at 83% utilization (28,400
slices).
Bill
>  "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
>   temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>                                           -Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com> writes:
> I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum
> cleaner and heat the room like a space heater this time around too,
> perhaps I need to consider liquid cooling?

I've been thinking about using a Zalman Reserator fanless watar
cooling kit when I upgrade my machine to an Athlon 64 X2 4400+
(dual core 2.2 GHz), but I haven't tried it yet so I can't personally
confirm the claims.

    http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=63&code=021

I've been happy with Zalman's other products, though.  I'm using their
CNPS7000B-Cu heatsink/fan on a Athlon 64 3500+, and it does a great
job of keeping the temperature down without much noise.

    http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=141&code=005

But the X2 uses a lot more power (up to 105W, IIRC), and I suspect that
the Reserator will be able to keep it cooler than the CNPS7000B-Cu
would.

Zalman recommends distilled water for the Reserator.  I wonder whether
it's a good idea to add something to inhibit growth of microorganisms,
like a tiny amount of bleach?  If the thing is working properly, the
water won't get hot enough to kill all the critters.

Eric

"Eric Smith" <eric@brouhaha.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:qhwtp2qdxu.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...

> Zalman recommends distilled water for the Reserator.  I wonder whether
> it's a good idea to add something to inhibit growth of microorganisms,
> like a tiny amount of bleach?  If the thing is working properly, the
> water won't get hot enough to kill all the critters.

Use alcohol.
NOO.
It would be a waste!!
;-)

Regards
Falk

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:51:02 -0400, Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com>
wrote:

>Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon 
>1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K, 
>matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept 
>up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using 
>these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).  
>I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the 
>room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to 
>consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I 
>admit I am being lazy.

I've just upgraded to a 3GHz Prescott Pentium 4 system.  Prior to this
I'd used dual-processor systems, but the hyperthreading feature seems
to let me run small stuff painlessly while a simulation or route is
running.  And speed is good, too.

Sad to say, it doesn't meet your "no space heater" criterion.  The
Prescott CPUs run very, very hot.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works

On 10 Jun 2005 11:11:57 -0700, Eric Smith <eric@brouhaha.com> wrote:

>Ray Andraka <ray@andraka.com> writes:
>> I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum
>> cleaner and heat the room like a space heater this time around too,
>> perhaps I need to consider liquid cooling?
>
>I've been thinking about using a Zalman Reserator fanless watar
>cooling kit when I upgrade my machine to an Athlon 64 X2 4400+
>(dual core 2.2 GHz), but I haven't tried it yet so I can't personally
>confirm the claims.
>
>    http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=63&code=021
>
>I've been happy with Zalman's other products, though.  I'm using their
>CNPS7000B-Cu heatsink/fan on a Athlon 64 3500+, and it does a great
>job of keeping the temperature down without much noise.
>
>    http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=141&code=005
>
>But the X2 uses a lot more power (up to 105W, IIRC), and I suspect that
>the Reserator will be able to keep it cooler than the CNPS7000B-Cu
>would.
>
>Zalman recommends distilled water for the Reserator.  I wonder whether
>it's a good idea to add something to inhibit growth of microorganisms,
>like a tiny amount of bleach?  If the thing is working properly, the
>water won't get hot enough to kill all the critters.
>

Car anti-freeze?

John

billh40@aol.com wrote:
> Ray Andraka wrote:
> > Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon
> > 1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K,
> > matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept
> > up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using
> > these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).
> > I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the
> > room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to
> > consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I
> > admit I am being lazy.
> >
> >     I am using a 2.6 GHZ P4 , XP PRO, DELL GX270, 2GB RAM, 7200 RPM IDE.
> > It takes 7 hours to  PAR for a V6000 at 83% utilization (28,400 slices).
> > Bill

Howdy Ray and Bill,

Config: 3.2 GHz P4, XP Pro, Dell PWS360, 2 GB RAM.  Files stored out on
a network drive.

Results: It takes 3 hours for timing driving MAP + PAR to spit out an
LX25 (10.8k slices) design at 91% LUT utilization, using 6.3.3i.  7.1i
takes noticably longer if global optimization is turned on.

According to http://www.polybus.com/linux_hardware/index.htm
and other things I've read, you want as much cache as you can afford.
The general agreement also seems to be that Athlon 64's tend to be the
fastest things out right now, to make a very sweeping generalization.

Have fun,

   Marc

"Ray Andraka" <ray@andraka.com> wrote in message 
news:HFiqe.559$FP2.71@lakeread03...
> Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon 
> 1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K, matrox 
> dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept up at all 
> with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using these days 
> for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).  I'd like 
> something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the room like 
> a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to consider liquid 
> cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I admit I am being 
> lazy.
>

The new Opterons actually have relatively low power dissipation
requirements.  You may want to consider 2 of the Opteron 252s
(single core 90nm devices) as they have fastest clock speed and
lowest power consumption requirements.

Here are some benchmarks of the new Opterons:

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=opteron275&page=1

Daniel Lang

Hi Ray,

> Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon
> 1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K,
> matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept
> up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using
> these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).
> I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the
> room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to
> consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated. 

I personally use an Athlon XP 3200 with 2GB and plain old parallel IDE disks
- I don't think that RAID performance helps me with P&R that much. Mind
you, so far I've worked on designs up to the 20K1500E and the 2S60 - I
guess I'd need a bit more when designing for something bigger.

Take a look at http:// www.alienware.com and look up the Aurora ALX. Dress
it up as you go, but do use the Athlon 64 X2 4800+ CPU, 2G of memory, and
even though it's liquid-cooled, it may be a good idea to add the noise
dampener stuff as well.

Alienware PCs are fast and reliable, and even though they're designed for
gamers, they should do a good job running Modelsim and PAR as well. Also, I
must say that they have sublime taste in casing - which after all does
matter since you'll be seeing that thing under your desk for the next few
years.

As to the OS - it's completely up to you. I'm a Linux fan, and the whole
Altera kit runs at the same speed under Linux as under W2K, with Modelsim
running around 10% faster than under Windows. SOPC Builder is faster by a
(subjective) factor 2 under Linux.

I haven't tried webpack under Linux yet - so much to do, so little time...

Just my $.02

Best regards,


Ben

Hi Ray,

I use the following heatsinks:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmcforinxe.html

I use this on a 3.x GHz P4 dual system, and they work great.  I got a super
quiet $5 fan with it, and no problems.

I use this case:

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15001

and it comes with two very very quiet fans.  The biggest feature of it is
the way the disk drives mount and are easily removeable.  It comes with a
four carrier drive bay that allows access out the side.  You may not like
the neon blue lights, or the clear sides, but ignore them...it's a really
nice case.  Has front USB ports as well.

I also use this power supply:

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=20551

which is sufficiently quiet.

As far as motherboard and memory goes, well, they really don't make much
noise, so I believe any of your liking that fit this case will do, and I'd
also recommend one that has at least a PCI-Express 16x video slot, if not
also a 4x and a few PCI slots.

Regards,

Austin


"Ray Andraka" <ray@andraka.com> wrote in message
news:HFiqe.559$FP2.71@lakeread03...
> Time has come for a computer upgrade (I'm currently using a dual Athlon
> 1.8GHz with 4GB memory and 15000RPM scsi raid array running Win2K,
> matrox dual head video with a pair of 19" monitors), but I haven't kept
> up at all with the computer market.  I'm wondering what people are using
> these days for high end designs (for simulation and PAR especially).
> I'd like something that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner and heat the
> room like a space heater this time around too, perhaps I need to
> consider liquid cooling?  ANy comments would be appreciated.  Yes, I
> admit I am being lazy.
>
> -- 
> --Ray Andraka, P.E.
> President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
> 401/884-7930     Fax 401/884-7950
> email ray@andraka.com
> http://www.andraka.com
>
>  "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
>   temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>                                           -Benjamin Franklin, 1759
>
>