System Engineering in the R/D World

Hello, I couldn't find a single newsgroup to post my question, but I
needed a good group of people to post my question to. So let me
apologize if you don't think should be in your newsgroup.  My question
is regarding the value (or importance) of System Engineering practices
in the R/D World. I work for the government and there are about 40
people in my branch. We do a lot of R/D projects as well as projects
for the testing groups. I would like to know from people in the R/D
world how important do you feel System Engineering practices are on
your job? Many of my co-workers say, "oh that's for really big
programs, we don't do that hear". Do you agree? Some believe System
engineering only pertains to the integration of the pieces of the
design. To me that is only part of SE, there's so much more. Without
being long winded, can those who work in the R/D world, could you
please give your opinions of SE in your workplace? Is it important or a
waste of time? What practices do you feel are necessary? Is SE only for
the production people? I appreciate any responses and hope I don't
offend anyone for posting my question. My intention is to gain enough
information to convince my coworkers to use some of the SE practices
I've read about.

thanks,
joe

It would help if you gave your definition of System Engineering

I spent my career in R/D, mostly with small companies, but am not sure what 
you mean by "System Eng Practices"

Dan

-- 

Dan Hollands
1120 S Creek Dr
Webster NY 14580
585-872-2606
QuickScore@USSailing.net
www.QuickScoreRace.com


<jjlindula@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1123080462.346149.178820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, I couldn't find a single newsgroup to post my question, but I
> needed a good group of people to post my question to. So let me
> apologize if you don't think should be in your newsgroup.  My question
> is regarding the value (or importance) of System Engineering practices
> in the R/D World. I work for the government and there are about 40
> people in my branch. We do a lot of R/D projects as well as projects
> for the testing groups. I would like to know from people in the R/D
> world how important do you feel System Engineering practices are on
> your job? Many of my co-workers say, "oh that's for really big
> programs, we don't do that hear". Do you agree? Some believe System
> engineering only pertains to the integration of the pieces of the
> design. To me that is only part of SE, there's so much more. Without
> being long winded, can those who work in the R/D world, could you
> please give your opinions of SE in your workplace? Is it important or a
> waste of time? What practices do you feel are necessary? Is SE only for
> the production people? I appreciate any responses and hope I don't
> offend anyone for posting my question. My intention is to gain enough
> information to convince my coworkers to use some of the SE practices
> I've read about.
>
> thanks,
> joe
> 

jjlindula@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hello, I couldn't find a single newsgroup to post my question, but I
> needed a good group of people to post my question to. So let me
> apologize if you don't think should be in your newsgroup.  My question
> is regarding the value (or importance) of System Engineering practices
> in the R/D World. I work for the government and there are about 40
> people in my branch. We do a lot of R/D projects as well as projects
> for the testing groups. I would like to know from people in the R/D
> world how important do you feel System Engineering practices are on
> your job? Many of my co-workers say, "oh that's for really big
> programs, we don't do that hear". Do you agree? Some believe System
> engineering only pertains to the integration of the pieces of the
> design. To me that is only part of SE, there's so much more. Without
> being long winded, can those who work in the R/D world, could you
> please give your opinions of SE in your workplace? Is it important or a
> waste of time? What practices do you feel are necessary? Is SE only for
> the production people? I appreciate any responses and hope I don't
> offend anyone for posting my question. My intention is to gain enough
> information to convince my coworkers to use some of the SE practices
> I've read about.
> 
> thanks,
> joe
> 
In the companies where I've worked, and in most other companies, if no 
one knew exactly what you did but they knew you were valuable they 
called you a "systems engineer".  Some of these people ended up either 
doing or coordinating the design tradeoffs between hardware, software, 
mechanical, etc.; others couldn't engineer their way out of a paper bag, 
but were good for dealing with certain esoteric problems that required 
large brains.

So you'll have to define "systems engineering practices" for us.

In most places where it needs to be done the design tradeoffs between 
disciplines that I'm speaking of tend to be done by the project manager, 
or they happen by committee, with electrical, software and mechanical 
engineers getting together and hashing things out.  If the project 
manager is smart and/or if the committee gets together well then this 
can make for some very good systems designs.  Unfortunately it's a chain 
that's weaker than its weakest link, so you have to be careful.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Hello, to be brief SE involves requirements analysis, risk managment,
controlling your design processes, interface control, supportability,
realiability, maintainability, reproducability, peer reviews and
technical reviews, test planning, integration planning. SE is used to
manage a project to control costs, schedule, and performance. I"m still
learning all the areas and probablity left out a ton of stuff.
Although, I'm more interested in the technical side of SE, rather than
counting the money stuff.

On 3 Aug 2005 07:47:42 -0700, jjlindula@hotmail.com wrote:

>Hello, I couldn't find a single newsgroup to post my question, but I
>needed a good group of people to post my question to. So let me
>apologize if you don't think should be in your newsgroup.  My question
>is regarding the value (or importance) of System Engineering practices
>in the R/D World. I work for the government and there are about 40
>people in my branch. We do a lot of R/D projects as well as projects
>for the testing groups. I would like to know from people in the R/D
>world how important do you feel System Engineering practices are on
>your job? Many of my co-workers say, "oh that's for really big
>programs, we don't do that hear". Do you agree? Some believe System
>engineering only pertains to the integration of the pieces of the
>design. To me that is only part of SE, there's so much more. Without
>being long winded, can those who work in the R/D world, could you
>please give your opinions of SE in your workplace? Is it important or a
>waste of time? What practices do you feel are necessary? Is SE only for
>the production people? I appreciate any responses and hope I don't
>offend anyone for posting my question. My intention is to gain enough
>information to convince my coworkers to use some of the SE practices
>I've read about.
>
>thanks,
>joe

What is "System Engineering" anyhow? If you mean someone who plans
high-level designs without detailed knowledge of the underlying
technology, my company certainly has nobody like that, and my
customers, gigabuck big-science projects and aerospace companies,
don't seem to either, as far as I can tell. The people who do the
highest-level thinking, the grand architectures and the new ideas,
seem to be just the best of the technologists.

John

I think the bigger the project the more you will need systems
engineers, in smaller projects the typical system tasks (requirements
definition, interface specifications, trade studies, test plans
procedures, spec compliance verification, test equipment integration,
debugging high level field integration problems) usuallly are
integrated into the software/hardware engineers work schedule. If you
tried to force the creation of a systems engineer position is a small
project you probably would need to create unnecessary busy work to keep
him/her employed (forcing the generation of unneeded documents). As
projects get bigger these functions are too much for the
software/hardware engineers to support and the creation of a formalized
system engineering function becomes necessary. The majority of systems
work is customer/production related, so R/D has much less need for
dedicated systems people, just my opinion.

Tim Wescott wrote:

> In most places where it needs to be done the design tradeoffs
> between disciplines that I'm speaking of tend to be done by the
> project manager, or they happen by committee, with electrical,
> software and mechanical engineers getting together and hashing
> things out.  If the project manager is smart and/or if the
> committee gets together well then this can make for some very
> good systems designs.  Unfortunately it's a chain that's weaker
> than its weakest link, so you have to be careful. 

What do you mean by that, "weaker than its weakest link"?

-- 
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

<jjlindula@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:1123080462.346149.178820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, I couldn't find a single newsgroup to post my question, but I
> needed a good group of people to post my question to. So let me

This is stuff you want to discuss with Guy Macon. He hangs
around in misc.business.product-dev

And of cource it is 100% waste of time, only invented
by 'managers' to hide their incompetence.

-- 
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and 'invalid' when replying by email)

<jjlindula@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123080462.346149.178820@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Hello,

[snip]

> thanks,
> joe
>

I think I can gaurantee that when you try to define and analyse it you will
lose it having not found it in the first place.

DNA

What?