Hello. <p>I�m new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I�m currently subscribed to receive Xilinx email communications. <p>I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs? <p>Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer. <BR> (jose_rocha@yahoo.com)
FPGA/CPLD With Analog Functions?
Started by ●October 14, 2003
Reply by ●October 14, 20032003-10-14
"Jos� F. da Rocha" wrote:> > Hello. > > I�m new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I�m currently subscribed to > receive Xilinx email communications. > > I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few > analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, > OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs > (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs? > > Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer. > (jose_rocha@yahoo.com)There are two devices you might be interested in. One is an MCU with programmable digital and analog blocks made by Cypress Semi. This is not really an FPGA since they don't make it easy for you to design your own digital functions. They used to, but they seem to have gone to a canned module approach where you have lots of standard functions to choose from. But I think the digital blocks are easier to work with than the analog blocks, so you might be able to do what you need. The other chip is an FPAA (field programmable analog array). This is an analog analog (pun intended) to digital FPGAs. I don't know a lot about them, but a google search should tell you the maker(s) and you can read up. AFAIK, there are no chips that combine programmable digital and analog functions on one chip. The processing technologies are different enough that this would be a poor tradeoff and would be neither a good digital or a good analog chip. Eventually when FPGAs have gotten dense enough that they are mostly overkill for many apps, they will sacrifice digital speed and density for the added features of built in analog functions. But don't hold your breath. And don't expect the analog functions to be programmable, at least not at first. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
Reply by ●October 14, 20032003-10-14
Jos� F. da Rocha <jose_rocha@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ee806ea.-1@WebX.sUN8CHnE... Hello. I'm new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I'm currently subscribed to receive Xilinx email communications. I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs? Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer. (jose_rocha@yahoo.com) Take a look at Zetex's TRAC product. See www.zetex.com.
Reply by ●October 14, 20032003-10-14
rickman wrote:> > "Jos� F. da Rocha" wrote: > > > > Hello. > > > > I�m new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I�m currently subscribed to > > receive Xilinx email communications. > > > > I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few > > analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, > > OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs > > (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs? > > > > Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer. > > (jose_rocha@yahoo.com) > > There are two devices you might be interested in. One is an MCU with > programmable digital and analog blocks made by Cypress Semi. This is > not really an FPGA since they don't make it easy for you to design your > own digital functions. They used to, but they seem to have gone to a > canned module approach where you have lots of standard functions to > choose from.Did you see info that documented this ? - all I ever saw was 'marketing arm waving' and I was looking for better detail, on just what was SFR based, and what was programmable logic in the true sense.> But I think the digital blocks are easier to work with > than the analog blocks, so you might be able to do what you need. > > The other chip is an FPAA (field programmable analog array). This is an > analog analog (pun intended) to digital FPGAs. I don't know a lot about > them, but a google search should tell you the maker(s) and you can read > up. > > AFAIK, there are no chips that combine programmable digital and analog > functions on one chip.Well, none that do it with any performance.... The FPAAs I've seen have very poor analog numbers, and high prices. Lattice have a power-sequencer device, that has a SPLD, and voltage comparator / timers - but costs a lot more than a 16V8 and LM339's STm have devices with uC + ADC / PWM and 16-32 Macrocell CPLDs> The processing technologies are different enough > that this would be a poor tradeoff and would be neither a good digital > or a good analog chip. Eventually when FPGAs have gotten dense enough > that they are mostly overkill for many apps, they will sacrifice digital > speed and density for the added features of built in analog functions. > But don't hold your breath. And don't expect the analog functions to be > programmable, at least not at first.There are devices that combine uC+FLASH+PGA+24 bit ADCs/ 16 Bit DACS, that are impressive indications of what IS possible, but they come from very experienced ANALOG companies. -jg
Reply by ●October 14, 20032003-10-14
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C3927E.86F873F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the functions you are looking for (or close anyway) try Cypress = Micro PSoC http://www.cypressmicro.com/ For the FPAA try Anadigm http://www.anadigm.com They might me close enough for what you are looking for. "Jos=E9 F. da Rocha" <jose_rocha@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:ee806ea.-1@WebX.sUN8CHnE... Hello.=20 I'm new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I'm currently subscribed to = receive Xilinx email communications.=20 I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few = analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, = OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs = (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs?=20 Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer.=20 (jose_rocha@yahoo.com) ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C3927E.86F873F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For the functions you are looking for = (or close=20 anyway) try Cypress Micro PSoC <A=20 href=3D"http://www.cypressmicro.com/">http://www.cypressmicro.com/</A></F= ONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For the FPAA try Anadigm <A=20 href=3D"http://www.anadigm.com">http://www.anadigm.com</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>They might me close enough for what you = are looking=20 for.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV>"Jos=E9 F. da Rocha" <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:jose_rocha@yahoo.com">jose_rocha@yahoo.com</A>> = wrote in=20 message <A=20 = href=3D"news:ee806ea.-1@WebX.sUN8CHnE">news:ee806ea.-1@WebX.sUN8CHnE</A>.= ..</DIV>Hello.=20 <P>I=92m new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I=92m currently subscribed to = receive=20 Xilinx email communications.=20 <P>I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some = few=20 analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, = OPerational=20 AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) = and=20 DACs?=20 <P>Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer.=20 <BR>(jose_rocha@yahoo.com)</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0055_01C3927E.86F873F0--
Reply by ●October 15, 20032003-10-15
Jim Granville wrote:> > rickman wrote: > > > > "Jos� F. da Rocha" wrote: > > > > > > Hello. > > > > > > I�m new at the FPGA/CPLDs world and I�m currently subscribed to > > > receive Xilinx email communications. > > > > > > I would like to know if is there some FPGA/CPLD incorporating some few > > > analog functions or analog blocks like instrumentation amplifiers, > > > OPerational AMPlifiers/(analog amplification), ADCs > > > (Analog-to-Digital-Converter) and DACs? > > > > > > Thank you very much if you are kindly enough to answer. > > > (jose_rocha@yahoo.com) > > > > There are two devices you might be interested in. One is an MCU with > > programmable digital and analog blocks made by Cypress Semi. This is > > not really an FPGA since they don't make it easy for you to design your > > own digital functions. They used to, but they seem to have gone to a > > canned module approach where you have lots of standard functions to > > choose from. > > Did you see info that documented this ? - all I ever saw was 'marketing > arm waving' > and I was looking for better detail, on just what was SFR based, and > what was programmable logic in the true sense.I don't understand. What are you looking for documentation on; the chips being ready or being programmable? Originally, when they first came out, you could program the digital and analog blocks yourself. But I think the rules were very complex and people objected to the limited amount of logic and capability for a single block. So they went to a marketing approach where they predesign function blocks and you pick the ones you need. BTW, I don't know what SFR means.> > But I think the digital blocks are easier to work with > > than the analog blocks, so you might be able to do what you need. > > > > The other chip is an FPAA (field programmable analog array). This is an > > analog analog (pun intended) to digital FPGAs. I don't know a lot about > > them, but a google search should tell you the maker(s) and you can read > > up. > > > > AFAIK, there are no chips that combine programmable digital and analog > > functions on one chip. > > Well, none that do it with any performance.... > > The FPAAs I've seen have very poor analog numbers, and high prices. > > Lattice have a power-sequencer device, that has a SPLD, and voltage > comparator / timers - but costs a lot more than a 16V8 and LM339's > > STm have devices with uC + ADC / PWM and 16-32 Macrocell CPLDsPerhaps I did not understand what is being sought. None of these has "programmable" analog. I was not aware of the STm parts. But then I find their web site nearly impossible to use.> > The processing technologies are different enough > > that this would be a poor tradeoff and would be neither a good digital > > or a good analog chip. Eventually when FPGAs have gotten dense enough > > that they are mostly overkill for many apps, they will sacrifice digital > > speed and density for the added features of built in analog functions. > > But don't hold your breath. And don't expect the analog functions to be > > programmable, at least not at first. > > There are devices that combine uC+FLASH+PGA+24 bit ADCs/ 16 Bit DACS, > that are impressive indications of what IS possible, but they > come from very experienced ANALOG companies.Yes, but these chips are not using cutting edge digital. An 8051 is not a chalenge in any sense. The FPGA vendors currently have no interest in chips that are not 90 nm, fast as hell, etc... But as the market matures, this can change. We may see the FPGA vendors start to develop chips that have more than just programmable logic (or built in CPUs). -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
Reply by ●October 15, 20032003-10-15
rickman wrote:> > Jim Granville wrote: > > > > rickman wrote: > > > There are two devices you might be interested in. One is an MCU with > > > programmable digital and analog blocks made by Cypress Semi. This is > > > not really an FPGA since they don't make it easy for you to design your > > > own digital functions. They used to, but they seem to have gone to a > > > canned module approach where you have lots of standard functions to > > > choose from. > > > > Did you see info that documented this ? - all I ever saw was 'marketing > > arm waving' > > and I was looking for better detail, on just what was SFR based, and > > what was programmable logic in the true sense. > > I don't understand. What are you looking for documentation on; the > chips being ready or being programmable? Originally, when they first > came out, you could program the digital and analog blocks yourself. But > I think the rules were very complex and people objected to the limited > amount of logic and capability for a single block.I looked a few times for any under-the-bonnet stuff, as to just how programmable these blocks _really_ are. A few muxes does not quite rank as programmable, merely configurable, and all uC have configurable peripherals.... Did you ever see the complex rules - or the tools themselves ? Comments from someone who has seen this, and is FPGA tool/flow literate (like yourself) would be interesting.> So they went to a > marketing approach where they predesign function blocks and you pick the > ones you need.Makes sense, of course. In doing do they morph more to an IP company, and their PSoC morphs to a CSoC...> BTW, I don't know what SFR means.Special Function Register == Standard Peripheral access/configure scheme in microcontrollers. -jg
Reply by ●October 15, 20032003-10-15
Jim Granville wrote:> > rickman wrote: > > > > Jim Granville wrote: > > > > > > rickman wrote: > > > > There are two devices you might be interested in. One is an MCU with > > > > programmable digital and analog blocks made by Cypress Semi. This is > > > > not really an FPGA since they don't make it easy for you to design your > > > > own digital functions. They used to, but they seem to have gone to a > > > > canned module approach where you have lots of standard functions to > > > > choose from. > > > > > > Did you see info that documented this ? - all I ever saw was 'marketing > > > arm waving' > > > and I was looking for better detail, on just what was SFR based, and > > > what was programmable logic in the true sense. > > > > I don't understand. What are you looking for documentation on; the > > chips being ready or being programmable? Originally, when they first > > came out, you could program the digital and analog blocks yourself. But > > I think the rules were very complex and people objected to the limited > > amount of logic and capability for a single block. > > I looked a few times for any under-the-bonnet stuff, as to just > how programmable these blocks _really_ are. A few muxes does > not quite rank as programmable, merely configurable, and all uC > have configurable peripherals.... > > Did you ever see the complex rules - or the tools themselves ? > > Comments from someone who has seen this, and is > FPGA tool/flow literate (like yourself) would be interesting.I have seen some info on this. But it seems they have removed this from the web site and have changed to a prepackaged module design approach. They provide a menu of what is available and you pick what you will download to the programmable blocks. They are not just using a "few muxes". The digital blocks contain various elements that they configure. For example, digital blocks can be a serial shift register that can be used as a (rather crude) UART. Combine analog blocks and you can get a SAR ADC. The list of functions that can be programmed are listed on their web site. Here is a definition of one field in a register that configures a digital block. Bit [2:0]: Function [2:0] The Function [2:0] bits select the block function which determines the basic hardware configuration 0 0 0 = Timer (chainable) 0 0 1 = Counter (chainable) 0 1 0 = CRC/ PRS (Cyclical Redundancy Checker or Psuedo Random Sequencer) (chainable) 0 1 1 = Reserved 1 0 0 = Deadband for Pulse Width Modulator 1 0 1 = UART (function only available on DCA type blocs) 1 1 0 = SPI (function only available on DCA type blocs) 1 1 0 = Reserved 1 1 1 = Reserved Clearly this is not a LUT type FPGA. But it is a programmable block, even if it is only programmable by them. This was taken from a 2000 data sheet I have.> > So they went to a > > marketing approach where they predesign function blocks and you pick the > > ones you need. > > Makes sense, of course. In doing do they morph more to an IP company, > and > their PSoC morphs to a CSoC...Yes, but I don't think they did it because they wanted to be an "IP" company. I think they realized that programming the blocks was not very simple and would never be supported by the type of tools that FPGAs and CPLDs are. The laundry list is just a more practical way of getting this to work. If you are a company wanting to buy millions, I am sure they will design any block you would like to see that can be supported. After all, they have already come up the learning curve.> > BTW, I don't know what SFR means. > > Special Function Register == Standard Peripheral access/configure > scheme in microcontrollers.-- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX
