Hi, I've been using the 25P10 flash to configure cyclone devices, as far as I can see they are exactly equal to the EPCS1 (even silicon ID is the same, I suspect it is the same chip inside) All altera devices (in AS) I tested can read it and configure fine, however the Quartus II fail to load data into the 25P10... (I must use another software to load the 25p10 and that is less convenient) Does anybody knows why... what is the trick used ? Luis C.
Cyclone conf flash - 25p10 !
Started by ●September 6, 2005
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
"Luis Cupido" <cupidoREMOVE@REMOVEua.pt> wrote in news:newscache$0vhemi$3um$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt:> Hi, > > I've been using the 25P10 flash to configure cyclone devices, > as far as I can see they are exactly equal to the EPCS1 > (even silicon ID is the same, I suspect it is the same chip inside) > > All altera devices (in AS) I tested can read it and configure fine, > however the Quartus II fail to load data into the 25P10... > (I must use another software to load the 25p10 and that is less > convenient) > > Does anybody knows why... what is the trick used ? > > Luis C. > > > >This is very interesting since the configuration roms are expensive compared to typical SPI flash. I noticed that Lattice is pushing the fact that they can configure using cheap standard SPI flash. Do you use the 25p10 A version. Have you tried SST parts? -- Al Clark Danville Signal Processing, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
Al Clark wrote:> "Luis Cupido" <cupidoREMOVE@REMOVEua.pt> wrote in > news:newscache$0vhemi$3um$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt: >>Hi, >> >>I've been using the 25P10 flash to configure cyclone devices, >>as far as I can see they are exactly equal to the EPCS1 >>(even silicon ID is the same, I suspect it is the same chip inside) >> >>All altera devices (in AS) I tested can read it and configure fine, >>however the Quartus II fail to load data into the 25P10...Then SOMETHING must be different ?>>(I must use another software to load the 25p10 and that is less >>convenient) >> >>Does anybody knows why... what is the trick used ? >> >>Luis C. > > This is very interesting since the configuration roms are expensive > compared to typical SPI flash. I noticed that Lattice is pushing the fact > that they can configure using cheap standard SPI flash. > > Do you use the 25p10 A version. Have you tried SST parts?... and you will see Xilinx have also hopped on this bandwaggon, with their newest Spartan 3E's - much hoopla about std SPI and also NOR flash loader options. It cost them ~3 pins, to select the vendor/state engine for a given SPI memory. Not before time, but it will mean Altera have to step into line as well, and remove any 'deliberate' hurdles that might have found their way into their tool flows ( if that's really what's occured ? ) -jg
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
ST Micro's flash devices can be used instead since they are drop in replacements, correct? They are much cheaper.
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
The ones I use are the 25P10A from ST. (25P10AV-ST) lc. "Al Clark" <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message news:Xns96C9E2219E5EEaclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.129.71...> "Luis Cupido" <cupidoREMOVE@REMOVEua.pt> wrote in > news:newscache$0vhemi$3um$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt: > >> Hi, >> >> I've been using the 25P10 flash to configure cyclone devices, >> as far as I can see they are exactly equal to the EPCS1 >> (even silicon ID is the same, I suspect it is the same chip inside) >> >> All altera devices (in AS) I tested can read it and configure fine, >> however the Quartus II fail to load data into the 25P10... >> (I must use another software to load the 25p10 and that is less >> convenient) >> >> Does anybody knows why... what is the trick used ? >> >> Luis C. >> >> >> >> > > This is very interesting since the configuration roms are expensive > compared to typical SPI flash. I noticed that Lattice is pushing the fact > that they can configure using cheap standard SPI flash. > > Do you use the 25p10 A version. Have you tried SST parts? > > > -- > Al Clark > Danville Signal Processing, Inc. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff > Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
Hi,> Then SOMETHING must be different ?Right :) ... but only Quartus II knows how to check that One hypothesis is that the EPCS devices come from altera with something on memory to tell that they are from altera. and Quartus II also writes something to keep this thread going. Would that be the trick ? That was what I would like to know ;) I'm sure I'm not the first one to use the 25P10A Anyone can use them, just make an RBF file on quartus and send it to the 25P10A using other software than quartus. lc. "Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message news:431e780e$1@clear.net.nz...> Al Clark wrote: >> "Luis Cupido" <cupidoREMOVE@REMOVEua.pt> wrote in >> news:newscache$0vhemi$3um$1@newsfront4.netvisao.pt: >>>Hi, >>> >>>I've been using the 25P10 flash to configure cyclone devices, >>>as far as I can see they are exactly equal to the EPCS1 >>>(even silicon ID is the same, I suspect it is the same chip inside) >>> >>>All altera devices (in AS) I tested can read it and configure fine, >>>however the Quartus II fail to load data into the 25P10... > > Then SOMETHING must be different ? > >>>(I must use another software to load the 25p10 and that is less >>>convenient) >>>Does anybody knows why... what is the trick used ? >>> >>>Luis C. >> >> This is very interesting since the configuration roms are expensive >> compared to typical SPI flash. I noticed that Lattice is pushing the fact >> that they can configure using cheap standard SPI flash. >> >> Do you use the 25p10 A version. Have you tried SST parts? > > ... and you will see Xilinx have also hopped on this bandwaggon, > with their newest Spartan 3E's - much hoopla about std SPI and also > NOR flash loader options. > It cost them ~3 pins, to select the vendor/state engine for a given SPI > memory. > Not before time, but it will mean Altera have to step into line as well, > and remove any 'deliberate' hurdles that might have found their > way into their tool flows ( if that's really what's occured ? ) > > -jg > > >
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
Correct. Only Quartus II refuses to program them, but you can load them with external prog software. lc. <jai.dhar@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1126099709.061349.86050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> ST Micro's flash devices can be used instead since they are drop in > replacements, correct? They are much cheaper. >
Reply by ●September 7, 20052005-09-07
Luis Cupido wrote:> Hi, > > >>Then SOMETHING must be different ? > > > Right :) > ... but only Quartus II knows how to check that > > One hypothesis is that the EPCS devices come from altera > with something on memory to tell that they are from altera. > and Quartus II also writes something to keep this > thread going. Would that be the trick ?You could test that idea, by using your other SW to read back 100% from a Altera tagged one, and copy that into the ST one, then see if Quartus can still spot the difference... ? -jg
Reply by ●September 8, 20052005-09-08
Sorry, my bad. I know I have programmed them using the ASMI interface in NIOS (is this what you are referring to by external prog. software?), but I haven't tried using the BB cable directly to the flash device. On the note that it must be shipped with something special in it.. .Altera clames the device is shipped with the memory all reset to FF's... where could they possibly store something? Jim's test definitely sounds like something interesting to try. It's a shame because I can't use anything more than a 4 Mbit flash device for configuration since Quartus only supports 1 and 4 (for me at least). I have a 32-mbit ST Micro flash device that I'm using as secondary flash holding user-code, but I can't seem to get it working as a primary configuration device. Maybe the $12 increase in price over the STM counterparts is actually something functionally different rather than a re-label :)
Reply by ●September 8, 20052005-09-08
jai.dhar@gmail.com wrote:> Sorry, my bad. I know I have programmed them using the ASMI interface > in NIOS (is this what you are referring to by external prog. > software?), but I haven't tried using the BB cable directly to the > flash device. > > On the note that it must be shipped with something special in it.. > .Altera clames the device is shipped with the memory all reset to > FF's... where could they possibly store something? Jim's test > definitely sounds like something interesting to try. It's a shame > because I can't use anything more than a 4 Mbit flash device for > configuration since Quartus only supports 1 and 4 (for me at least). I > have a 32-mbit ST Micro flash device that I'm using as secondary flash > holding user-code, but I can't seem to get it working as a primary > configuration device.Have you opened a case with Altera ?. That's a reasonably mainstream use of the config, and one they should be keen to support this obvious usage. -jg
