a few questions

Hello,

I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
installed their Quartus II.
Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
can you recommend?

All hints/advice appreciated,

Gert Baars

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:24:54 +0200, Gert Baars <g.baars13@chello.nl>
wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
>to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
>installed their Quartus II.
>Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
>language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
>can you recommend?
>
>All hints/advice appreciated,
>
>Gert Baars


--
Caution: Contents may contain sarcasm.
Phil Hays

 

On a sunny day (Mon, 24 Oct 2005 23:24:54 +0200) it happened Gert Baars
<g.baars13@chello.nl> wrote in <b212$435d5121$3ec235b6$29794@news.chello.nl>:

>Hello,
>
>I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
>to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
>installed their Quartus II.
>Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
>language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
>can you recommend?
>
>All hints/advice appreciated,
>
>Gert Baars
If you know C, verilog looks a bit like it (but is not).
Always think hardware, not procedural languages.
There are however C to HDL converters.

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Gert Baars wrote:

>I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
>to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
>installed their Quartus II.
>Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
>language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
>can you recommend?

VHDL.

Having said that, there is almost as strong of case for Verilog.  VHDL
is somewhat harder to learn the basics of, and Verilog is harder to
master.  The area under the learning curves is similar.  There have
been religious wars over this in the past.  At minimum, learning how
to read both is good.

One hint, don't think of it as programming.  You are specifying
hardware.  Try to work out what hardware will implement what you write
as you write it.


-- 
Phil Hays to reply solve: phil_hays at not(coldmail) dot com  
 If not cold then hot

Phil Hays wrote:
> Gert Baars wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
>>to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
>>installed their Quartus II.
>>Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
>>language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
>>can you recommend?
> 
> 
> VHDL.
> 
> Having said that, there is almost as strong of case for Verilog.  VHDL
> is somewhat harder to learn the basics of, and Verilog is harder to
> master.  The area under the learning curves is similar.  There have
> been religious wars over this in the past.  At minimum, learning how
> to read both is good.
> 
> One hint, don't think of it as programming.  You are specifying
> hardware.  Try to work out what hardware will implement what you write
> as you write it.
> 
> 


Fine, thanks for reply. I am aware that VHDL is a matter of specifying.
If you can recommend documents or books, please don't hesitate.

Gert Baars wrote:

> Phil Hays wrote:
> 
>> Gert Baars wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
>>> to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
>>> installed their Quartus II.
>>> Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
>>> language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
>>> can you recommend?
>>
>>
>>
>> VHDL.
>>
>> Having said that, there is almost as strong of case for Verilog.  VHDL
>> is somewhat harder to learn the basics of, and Verilog is harder to
>> master.  The area under the learning curves is similar.  There have
>> been religious wars over this in the past.  At minimum, learning how
>> to read both is good.
>>
>> One hint, don't think of it as programming.  You are specifying
>> hardware.  Try to work out what hardware will implement what you write
>> as you write it.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Fine, thanks for reply. I am aware that VHDL is a matter of specifying.
> If you can recommend documents or books, please don't hesitate.
> 
"The Verilog Hardware Description Language" by Thomas & Moorby is fair 
to good.  It describes the language, it's written in a tutorial format, 
but unless you have a pointer to 
http://www.sutherland-hdl.com/on-line_ref_guide/vlog_ref_top.html you'll 
be constantly frustrated.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Gert Baars" <g.baars13@chello.nl> wrote in message 
news:b212$435d5121$3ec235b6$29794@news.chello.nl...
> Hello,
>
> I am experienced with Electronics and programming but never had anything
> to do with FPGA. I want to start with an FPGA from Altera and have 
> installed their Quartus II.
> Now my guess is I have to learn a language like VHDL or Verilog. What
> language is easiest/fastest to learn or what other programming-language
> can you recommend?
>
> All hints/advice appreciated,
>
> Gert Baars

Gert :

I'm not saying you should - but you could use schematic capture in Quartus.

Using the MegaWizard (which hides some parameterized HDL behind schematic 
symbols), hierarchical schematics and a well thought out library you can get 
some complex designs in a reasonably concise (and beautifully 
self-documenting form)

I know there are a million and one reasons not do this - but you could.

Gert Baars wrote:

>Fine, thanks for reply. I am aware that VHDL is a matter of specifying.
>If you can recommend documents or books, please don't hesitate.

"Essential VHDL"

http://www.vahana.com/vhdl.htm


-- 
Phil Hays to reply solve: phil_hays at not(coldmail) dot com  
 If not cold then hot

I started with vhdl and then saw communication industry shift to
verilog.  Now I use verilog all the time.  I find that there are more
resources dealing with verilog than vhdl.    You mentioned you are
trying to start with altera devices, I notice that the newer design
examples and documentation on altera's website also uses verilog.

>From a marketability standpoint - I see more job/contractor postings
that require verilog expertise than vhdl.

>From language standpoint - I think both vhdl and verilog have made
strides towards ease of use with their latest standards.  but you'll
have more fun with verilog once you master it.

Finally, to add to what others have said regarding thinking hardware -
do not choose verilog because it will let you write software like code.
 For the best quality hardware it is imperative that you think hardware
when you are writing code... or should I say describing hardware.

-sanjay

I started with vhdl and then saw communication industry shift to
verilog.  Now I use verilog all the time.  I find that there are more
resources dealing with verilog than vhdl.    You mentioned you are
trying to start with altera devices, I notice that the newer design
examples and documentation on altera's website also uses verilog.

>From a marketability standpoint - I see more job/contractor postings
that require verilog expertise than vhdl.

>From language standpoint - I think both vhdl and verilog have made
strides towards ease of use with their latest standards.  but you'll
have more fun with verilog once you master it.

Finally, to add to what others have said regarding thinking hardware -
do not choose verilog because it will let you write software like code.
 For the best quality hardware it is imperative that you think hardware
when you are writing code...

-sanjay