Viretx4 FX chip availability

I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold of
Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices (The ones with the up to 10 GBPs MGTs). I have
had 3 of the XC4VFX60-10FF672CES2 (That is engineering sample stepping 2)
devices on order since May this year, originally with a 6 week lead time. I
have had constant series of delays for no clear reasons given by our local
agent (I'm in Australia). Xilinx won't talk directly, everything has to go
through this agent MEMEC, the sole authorized distributer for Xilinx in Oz.
They are either unwilling or don't have the info themselves. I get given
snippets about speed of the MGTs , yield problems, new speed grade
desiginations but no real info. The Xilinx website has nothing but its
totally positive marketing hype. To add insult to injury I was due to get my
chips late October. At this time MEMEC was bought by AVNET, all the puchase
orders with xilinx were reraised under the AVNET banner but they stuffed up
and reraised at the current market leadtime of 16 weeks odd!

I have a fully designed (12 layer) PCB which is fully populated with a big
blank where the FPGA is to go and its seriously delaying our whole project.
The project also relies on the 10 GBPs serial data rate capability of the V4
RocketIOs. Do any of you people not so far away from the source as I am know
what the story is with the FX devices? Should I be redesigning my sytem to
use external SERDES and not rely on the V4 FXs coming along. I spoke to one
of the hard to find parts specialists in the US and they said the
engineering sample V4 devices are free in the US. I'm paying $1300 each for
them is this true?

When I looked at going back one step to the Viretex2 pro X 10 GBPs devices I
find all reference to the -5 10 GBPS devices has totally vanished from the
Xilinx datasheets. What's going on here?

Paul R

"Paul R" <paul_p_roberts@bigpond.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:eBEdf.16405$Hj2.13728@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold
of
> Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices (The ones with the up to 10 GBPs MGTs). I
have
> had 3 of the XC4VFX60-10FF672CES2 (That is engineering sample stepping 2)
> devices on order since May this year, originally with a 6 week lead time.
I
> have had constant series of delays for no clear reasons given by our local
> agent (I'm in Australia). Xilinx won't talk directly, everything has to go
> through this agent MEMEC, the sole authorized distributer for Xilinx in
Oz.
> They are either unwilling or don't have the info themselves. I get given
> snippets about speed of the MGTs , yield problems, new speed grade
> desiginations but no real info. The Xilinx website has nothing but its
> totally positive marketing hype. To add insult to injury I was due to get
my
> chips late October. At this time MEMEC was bought by AVNET, all the
puchase
> orders with xilinx were reraised under the AVNET banner but they stuffed
up
> and reraised at the current market leadtime of 16 weeks odd!
>
> I have a fully designed (12 layer) PCB which is fully populated with a big
> blank where the FPGA is to go and its seriously delaying our whole
project.
> The project also relies on the 10 GBPs serial data rate capability of the
V4
> RocketIOs. Do any of you people not so far away from the source as I am
know
> what the story is with the FX devices? Should I be redesigning my sytem to
> use external SERDES and not rely on the V4 FXs coming along. I spoke to
one
> of the hard to find parts specialists in the US and they said the
> engineering sample V4 devices are free in the US. I'm paying $1300 each
for
> them is this true?
>
> When I looked at going back one step to the Viretex2 pro X 10 GBPs devices
I
> find all reference to the -5 10 GBPS devices has totally vanished from the
> Xilinx datasheets. What's going on here?
>
> Paul R
>
Hi Paul,

As mr Murphy is still so things go wrong. It is clear that more than
expected has gone wrong with V4.

I was considering using V4MGT in a design where we needed proof of concept
proto in July 2005 and full working proto within a few months after that. As
of the information from disties that schedule looked tight but possible.
Luckily our project delayed anyway so it wasnt a problem for us that V4 MGTs
delayed.

Memec was sold early 2005, but the final sales required a US court decision
(about possible violation of Anti-monopoly laws) - so the somewhat unclear
time surely did not make the communication with the disties any better.

If your product needs to use non-ES FX60 silicon, then you can not ship it
before end of Q3 2006. If that doesnt fit your schedule, then you need to
look for alternatives.

If you could start shipping of the product based on working ES silicon then
the timing looks better. I also do not know if the 10GB is the problem
making part of the current silicon, but some MGT ES silicon defenetly is
available as of today. But your chances to get right now (without leadtime)
from disti are NIL.

FPGA manufacturers (and their disties) do not have official or unofficial
'samples' programme. Not in US not in Australia. That doesnt mean that it is
not possible to get samples. I guess some key customers defenetly get them,
and sometimes others as well.

In your case, well here is what I would do:

Take a screenshot of the PCB that designed with FX60, add some short
description of the project, and send that to xilinx direct. With a simple
promise that the PCB goes to fabrication the same day you receive fedex
tracking # for the parcel with FX sample that is on the way to you. You may
have to provide additional info about the intended use, etc, but my bet is
that if Xilinx actually has ready some silicon in the package that you need
you will get it.

Antti
BTW nice to see interest in V4 in Australia !
I always wanted to visit AU - it will come true next tuesday but
unfortunatly only 1 hour in Sidney airport transit lounge :(

Paul

I'll join Antti and say that you want to find out your support FAE at 
whatever flavour of Avnet you have out there. Silicon allocation when parts 
are short does tend to go large customers first but if you can make a good 
case sometimes doors will open. Not particularly giving things away I 
believe things are being done to ease the shortages but do talk to your FAE 
for the detail.

If your redesigning for external serdes I believe the LX and SX parts are 
now not bad to get hold off in the main.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Soon to be home of Broaddown4. The Ultimate Virtex-4 
Development Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk


"Paul R" <paul_p_roberts@bigpond.com> wrote in message 
news:eBEdf.16405$Hj2.13728@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold of
> Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices (The ones with the up to 10 GBPs MGTs). I 
> have
> had 3 of the XC4VFX60-10FF672CES2 (That is engineering sample stepping 2)
> devices on order since May this year, originally with a 6 week lead time. 
> I
> have had constant series of delays for no clear reasons given by our local
> agent (I'm in Australia). Xilinx won't talk directly, everything has to go
> through this agent MEMEC, the sole authorized distributer for Xilinx in 
> Oz.
> They are either unwilling or don't have the info themselves. I get given
> snippets about speed of the MGTs , yield problems, new speed grade
> desiginations but no real info. The Xilinx website has nothing but its
> totally positive marketing hype. To add insult to injury I was due to get 
> my
> chips late October. At this time MEMEC was bought by AVNET, all the 
> puchase
> orders with xilinx were reraised under the AVNET banner but they stuffed 
> up
> and reraised at the current market leadtime of 16 weeks odd!
>
> I have a fully designed (12 layer) PCB which is fully populated with a big
> blank where the FPGA is to go and its seriously delaying our whole 
> project.
> The project also relies on the 10 GBPs serial data rate capability of the 
> V4
> RocketIOs. Do any of you people not so far away from the source as I am 
> know
> what the story is with the FX devices? Should I be redesigning my sytem to
> use external SERDES and not rely on the V4 FXs coming along. I spoke to 
> one
> of the hard to find parts specialists in the US and they said the
> engineering sample V4 devices are free in the US. I'm paying $1300 each 
> for
> them is this true?
>
> When I looked at going back one step to the Viretex2 pro X 10 GBPs devices 
> I
> find all reference to the -5 10 GBPS devices has totally vanished from the
> Xilinx datasheets. What's going on here?
>
> Paul R
>
> 

"Paul R" <paul_p_roberts@bigpond.com> wrote in message 
news:eBEdf.16405$Hj2.13728@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold of
> Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices (The ones with the up to 10 GBPs MGTs). I 
> have
> had 3 of the XC4VFX60-10FF672CES2 (That is engineering sample stepping 2)
> devices on order since May this year, originally with a 6 week lead time. 
> I
> have had constant series of delays for no clear reasons given by our local
> agent (I'm in Australia). Xilinx won't talk directly, everything has to go
> through this agent MEMEC, the sole authorized distributer for Xilinx in 
> Oz.
> They are either unwilling or don't have the info themselves. I get given
> snippets about speed of the MGTs , yield problems, new speed grade
> desiginations but no real info. The Xilinx website has nothing but its
> totally positive marketing hype. To add insult to injury I was due to get 
> my
> chips late October. At this time MEMEC was bought by AVNET, all the 
> puchase
> orders with xilinx were reraised under the AVNET banner but they stuffed 
> up
> and reraised at the current market leadtime of 16 weeks odd!
>
> I have a fully designed (12 layer) PCB which is fully populated with a big
> blank where the FPGA is to go and its seriously delaying our whole 
> project.
> The project also relies on the 10 GBPs serial data rate capability of the 
> V4
> RocketIOs. Do any of you people not so far away from the source as I am 
> know
> what the story is with the FX devices? Should I be redesigning my sytem to
> use external SERDES and not rely on the V4 FXs coming along. I spoke to 
> one
> of the hard to find parts specialists in the US and they said the
> engineering sample V4 devices are free in the US. I'm paying $1300 each 
> for
> them is this true?
>
> When I looked at going back one step to the Viretex2 pro X 10 GBPs devices 
> I
> find all reference to the -5 10 GBPS devices has totally vanished from the
> Xilinx datasheets. What's going on here?
>
> Paul R
>
>

I know some of the CSIRO guys have had v4 chips for a while.

They were using avnet/memec but now are supposedly buying from the US to
get decent service and pricing.

Apparently with the memec to avnet switch 4 month leads turned into 8 month 
leads.

So you are not alone.

Local TI guys told us to talk to avnet but
they don't bother returning phone calls.

Alex 

Hi Paul,

I got 5 FX 20's a couple of months ago in the UK. We are a small
customer. Don't forget to check the errata before using those
engineering samples, particularly if you want to use the MGTs and
you've already made your PCB!

Cheers,
Jon

"Jon Beniston" <jon@beniston.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:1131963536.332953.27970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Paul,
>
> I got 5 FX 20's a couple of months ago in the UK. We are a small
> customer. Don't forget to check the errata before using those
> engineering samples, particularly if you want to use the MGTs and
> you've already made your PCB!
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>

oh FX20 was available for small customers some time already, but only ES 
with no functional MGTs and the original poster was only interested in FX60 
and 10GB use of MGTs

Antti 

> I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold of
> Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices

Seems like he was interested in the FX 20's.

Cheers,
Jon

I'm using a VIRTEX4 FX12 it should be ready by the end of October, but
now it seems that the production will start end of Febrary.

Francesco

Thanks for the advice Everyone,

Have made some progress in that the local Avnet FAE has contacted me as a
result of this thred and is setting up a discussion with Xilinx directly so
at least I can make my case to the source.

Jon, good to hear you actually got some FX20s, gives me heart the FX60s are
out there.

Alex, I'm one of those CSIRO guys. While we have designed boards for the
V4FX we are yet to see a V4 chip arrive apart from the FX12 (which have no
rockets) on my dev board I have been using to get the linux PPC control code
going on which will eventually go on the FX60 board.

For interest here is a photo of the assembled board waiting for the FX60
chip (for 2 months now
on the bench) the other gaps are some expensive 2GS/S 10 bit ADCs/DEMUX and
memory which I don't want to put on till I've tested the FPGA.
http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/Paul.Roberts/pics.html

My collegue who is building the receiver board is in a similar situation
with a fully assembled board using the FF1152 package just sitting on the
bench awaiting a V4.

Enjoy your stopover Antti. Its not often one just stops over in Sydney, its
a long way from anywhere. Are you on your way to New Zealand?

Regards,
Paul

"Paul R" <paul_p_roberts@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:eBEdf.16405$Hj2.13728@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I was wondering what anyone else's experience ahs been with getting hold
of
> Virtex4 FX 20 and 60 devices (The ones with the up to 10 GBPs MGTs). I
have
> had 3 of the XC4VFX60-10FF672CES2 (That is engineering sample stepping 2)
> devices on order since May this year, originally with a 6 week lead time.
I
> have had constant series of delays for no clear reasons given by our local
> agent (I'm in Australia). Xilinx won't talk directly, everything has to go
> through this agent MEMEC, the sole authorized distributer for Xilinx in
Oz.
> They are either unwilling or don't have the info themselves. I get given
> snippets about speed of the MGTs , yield problems, new speed grade
> desiginations but no real info. The Xilinx website has nothing but its
> totally positive marketing hype. To add insult to injury I was due to get
my
> chips late October. At this time MEMEC was bought by AVNET, all the
puchase
> orders with xilinx were reraised under the AVNET banner but they stuffed
up
> and reraised at the current market leadtime of 16 weeks odd!
>
> I have a fully designed (12 layer) PCB which is fully populated with a big
> blank where the FPGA is to go and its seriously delaying our whole
project.
> The project also relies on the 10 GBPs serial data rate capability of the
V4
> RocketIOs. Do any of you people not so far away from the source as I am
know
> what the story is with the FX devices? Should I be redesigning my sytem to
> use external SERDES and not rely on the V4 FXs coming along. I spoke to
one
> of the hard to find parts specialists in the US and they said the
> engineering sample V4 devices are free in the US. I'm paying $1300 each
for
> them is this true?
>
> When I looked at going back one step to the Viretex2 pro X 10 GBPs devices
I
> find all reference to the -5 10 GBPS devices has totally vanished from the
> Xilinx datasheets. What's going on here?
>
> Paul R
>
>

"Paul R" <paul_p_roberts@bigpond.com> wrote in message 
news:Fmaef.17770$Hj2.15399@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> For interest here is a photo of the assembled board waiting for the FX60
> chip (for 2 months now
> on the bench) the other gaps are some expensive 2GS/S 10 bit ADCs/DEMUX 
> and
> memory which I don't want to put on till I've tested the FPGA.
> http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/Paul.Roberts/pics.html
>
Hi Paul,
I noticed from your photo that you have two 28 pin PLCC packages (U15/16?) 
in the bottom right of the PCB. Do you find you have problems with getting 
the right solder paste thickness for these parts given that you have some 
fine-pitched TTSOPs on the board as well? You might need a stepped solder 
mask with a BIG step! I try very hard to avoid PLCC packages, I've had too 
many manufacturing problems with them.
Anyway, it's a minor point, just thought I'd mention it! Any chance of a 
view of the backside to see how you've laid out your bypass caps for the V4?
Good luck, Cheers, Syms.