Soldering SMT/BGA

Hi,
I'm very new to fpga, just came interrested in these things.
The only problem I think I will have is the soldering.
How to solder fpga's on the boards? I'm a student so I don't have money
for very expensive machines.
I want to be able to solder the whole range of packages of Xilinx
spartan 3e, will that be possible with not to expensive tools?

Package types:
Table 121: Xilinx Package Mechanical Drawings
Package                             Web Link (URL)
VQ100 / VQG100: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/vq100.pdf
CP132 / CPG132: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/cp132.pdf
TQ144 / TQG144: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/tq144.pdf
PQ208 / PQG208: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/pq208.pdf
FT256 / FTG256: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/ft256.pdf
FG320 / FGG320: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg320.pdf
FG400 / FGG400: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg400.pdf
FG484 / FGG484: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg484.pdf

Paul van der Linden wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm very new to fpga, just came interrested in these things.
> The only problem I think I will have is the soldering.
> How to solder fpga's on the boards? I'm a student so I don't have money
> for very expensive machines.
> I want to be able to solder the whole range of packages of Xilinx
> spartan 3e, will that be possible with not to expensive tools?
> 
> Package types:
> Table 121: Xilinx Package Mechanical Drawings
> Package                             Web Link (URL)
> VQ100 / VQG100: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/vq100.pdf
> CP132 / CPG132: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/cp132.pdf
> TQ144 / TQG144: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/tq144.pdf
> PQ208 / PQG208: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/pq208.pdf
> FT256 / FTG256: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/ft256.pdf
> FG320 / FGG320: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg320.pdf
> FG400 / FGG400: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg400.pdf
> FG484 / FGG484: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg484.pdf


The QFP devices (VQ100, TQ144 and PQ208) are do-able with some practice 
with a standard soldering iron and some wick.  Occe you get the corners 
soldered and all the pins aligned, you can solder the others easily. 
Dont worry about solder bridges, they are easy to pull off with the 
solder wick.

The BGA parts will probably not be within your capabilities.  I have 
baked my own chips on before, but be prepared to ruin a few chips.

Your best best is to get a development board to experiment.  If you need 
a standard alone module check out the Avnet Virtex 4 Mini module or the 
devices from Xess.


-Eli

>The BGA parts will probably not be within your capabilities.  I have 
>baked my own chips on before, but be prepared to ruin a few chips.

May I ask wether you ruin a few chips "per run" or up until one get
used to the process? What kind of oven are you using?

Markus

Hi Paul,

You might manage the flat pack stuff with a tiny soldering iron and a bit of 
luck, but the bgas are a different story.  Even the 'professionals' mess up 
when soldering these.
- aligning the BGA almost perfectly to the grid on the PCB is tricky
- Soldering these needs an oven with a compatible heat-curve, which changes 
from lead-free to leaded components.

Just last week I had two s2 200s that had to go to be x-rayed, turned out 
they weren't soldered at the right temperature...

So I wonder what your motivation is for this?  If you're starting out, try 
and get your hands on some starter kits, they're really good value, and you 
can learn loads from them.

If you're a student then go nag the electronics department, they should be 
pleased you're taking an interest, and might have some stuff lying around, 
plus if you could get some university-modules under your belt it would look 
nice on your CV.

Mind you, there's so much to be said for just doing things as you become 
interested.

I have to be honest and say that one of the big things that these Xilinx and 
Altera chaps are missing out on is the hobbyist engineer-type.  If only they 
had that in mind when they built some of these starter kits, they'd sell 
them by the shed-load.

Ok, just my 2p.
Ben

"Paul van der Linden" <msn@paultjuh.org> wrote in message 
news:44159b38$0$2337$2e0edba0@news.tweakdsl.nl...
> Hi,
> I'm very new to fpga, just came interrested in these things.
> The only problem I think I will have is the soldering.
> How to solder fpga's on the boards? I'm a student so I don't have money
> for very expensive machines.
> I want to be able to solder the whole range of packages of Xilinx
> spartan 3e, will that be possible with not to expensive tools?
>
> Package types:
> Table 121: Xilinx Package Mechanical Drawings
> Package                             Web Link (URL)
> VQ100 / VQG100: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/vq100.pdf
> CP132 / CPG132: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/cp132.pdf
> TQ144 / TQG144: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/tq144.pdf
> PQ208 / PQG208: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/pq208.pdf
> FT256 / FTG256: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/ft256.pdf
> FG320 / FGG320: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg320.pdf
> FG400 / FGG400: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg400.pdf
> FG484 / FGG484: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg484.pdf 

We are doing our best to patch that hobbiest hole. We we get some more time 
there will be some more products coming for that market.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Raggedstone1. The low Cost Spartan-3 Development 
Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk


"Benjamin Todd" <benjamin.toddREMOVEALLCAPITALS@cernREMOVEALLCAPITALS.ch> 
wrote in message news:dv49cf$s2f$1@sunnews.cern.ch...
> Hi Paul,
>
> You might manage the flat pack stuff with a tiny soldering iron and a bit 
> of luck, but the bgas are a different story.  Even the 'professionals' 
> mess up when soldering these.
> - aligning the BGA almost perfectly to the grid on the PCB is tricky
> - Soldering these needs an oven with a compatible heat-curve, which 
> changes from lead-free to leaded components.
>
> Just last week I had two s2 200s that had to go to be x-rayed, turned out 
> they weren't soldered at the right temperature...
>
> So I wonder what your motivation is for this?  If you're starting out, try 
> and get your hands on some starter kits, they're really good value, and 
> you can learn loads from them.
>
> If you're a student then go nag the electronics department, they should be 
> pleased you're taking an interest, and might have some stuff lying around, 
> plus if you could get some university-modules under your belt it would 
> look nice on your CV.
>
> Mind you, there's so much to be said for just doing things as you become 
> interested.
>
> I have to be honest and say that one of the big things that these Xilinx 
> and Altera chaps are missing out on is the hobbyist engineer-type.  If 
> only they had that in mind when they built some of these starter kits, 
> they'd sell them by the shed-load.
>
> Ok, just my 2p.
> Ben
>
> "Paul van der Linden" <msn@paultjuh.org> wrote in message 
> news:44159b38$0$2337$2e0edba0@news.tweakdsl.nl...
>> Hi,
>> I'm very new to fpga, just came interrested in these things.
>> The only problem I think I will have is the soldering.
>> How to solder fpga's on the boards? I'm a student so I don't have money
>> for very expensive machines.
>> I want to be able to solder the whole range of packages of Xilinx
>> spartan 3e, will that be possible with not to expensive tools?
>>
>> Package types:
>> Table 121: Xilinx Package Mechanical Drawings
>> Package                             Web Link (URL)
>> VQ100 / VQG100: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/vq100.pdf
>> CP132 / CPG132: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/cp132.pdf
>> TQ144 / TQG144: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/tq144.pdf
>> PQ208 / PQG208: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/pq208.pdf
>> FT256 / FTG256: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/ft256.pdf
>> FG320 / FGG320: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg320.pdf
>> FG400 / FGG400: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg400.pdf
>> FG484 / FGG484: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg484.pdf
>
> 

Eli Hughes wrote:
> The QFP devices (VQ100, TQ144 and PQ208) are do-able with some practice 
> with a standard soldering iron and some wick.  
How thin should the soldering iron be?
> Your best best is to get a development board to experiment.  If you need 
> a standard alone module check out the Avnet Virtex 4 Mini module or the 
> devices from Xess.
The problem with the standard development board, is that they are 
expensive (starting from 150 dollar or something). But I think I will 
buy one.

And I was also thinking of the feature, I want to be able to make my own 
devices, and using start kits for a final devices isn't right.
Paul

Paul van der Linden <msn@paultjuh.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm very new to fpga, just came interrested in these things.
> The only problem I think I will have is the soldering.
> How to solder fpga's on the boards? I'm a student so I don't have money
> for very expensive machines.
> I want to be able to solder the whole range of packages of Xilinx
> spartan 3e, will that be possible with not to expensive tools?

> Package types:
> Table 121: Xilinx Package Mechanical Drawings
> Package                             Web Link (URL)
> VQ100 / VQG100: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/vq100.pdf
> CP132 / CPG132: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/cp132.pdf
> TQ144 / TQG144: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/tq144.pdf
> PQ208 / PQG208: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/pq208.pdf
> FT256 / FTG256: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/ft256.pdf
> FG320 / FGG320: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg320.pdf
> FG400 / FGG400: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg400.pdf
> FG484 / FGG484: http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/packages/fg484.pdf

All VQ/PQ/TQ packages can be soldered by hand with decent
equipment. Serveral Websites give sort of tutorials. You can also inspect
all contacts easily.

All CP/FG package require much more expensive printed circuits boards, can
only be solder with much more expensive equipment  and are hard to inspect
after solder. Nothing for the beginner.

But for the start, buy some development board, so you don't need to solder
the FPGA at all.

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

Hi,
for self-soldering BGAs have a look at
http://www.lrr.in.tum.de/~acher/bga/
German only, but maybe helpful anyway. Nothing seems to be impossible ;)

Andre

Benjamin Todd wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> You might manage the flat pack stuff with a tiny soldering iron and a bit of 
> luck, but the bgas are a different story.  Even the 'professionals' mess up 
> when soldering these.
> - aligning the BGA almost perfectly to the grid on the PCB is tricky
> - Soldering these needs an oven with a compatible heat-curve, which changes 
> from lead-free to leaded components.
> 
> Just last week I had two s2 200s that had to go to be x-rayed, turned out 
> they weren't soldered at the right temperature...
> 
> So I wonder what your motivation is for this?  If you're starting out, try 
> and get your hands on some starter kits, they're really good value, and you 
> can learn loads from them.
> 
> If you're a student then go nag the electronics department, they should be 
> pleased you're taking an interest, and might have some stuff lying around, 
> plus if you could get some university-modules under your belt it would look 
> nice on your CV.
> 
> Mind you, there's so much to be said for just doing things as you become 
> interested.
> 
> I have to be honest and say that one of the big things that these Xilinx and 
> Altera chaps are missing out on is the hobbyist engineer-type.  If only they 
> had that in mind when they built some of these starter kits, they'd sell 
> them by the shed-load.
> 
> Ok, just my 2p.
> Ben

how about a BGA to DIP converter socket?

or, a BGA part pre-soldered to a board with
through-holes for attaching connectors, wires,
etc?

spartan3 + power supply + SRAM on a stamp-sized
board with breadboard type connectors on it?  I know
breadboard spartan3 dev boards are available, but
it would be cool to get something tiny, cheap, and easily
connected to.  minus the switches, LEDs, 7segment
LEDs, etc.

A BGA S3E to DIL is on the list.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development 
Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk

<aiiadict@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1142275608.445179.253990@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> how about a BGA to DIP converter socket?
>
> or, a BGA part pre-soldered to a board with
> through-holes for attaching connectors, wires,
> etc?
>
> spartan3 + power supply + SRAM on a stamp-sized
> board with breadboard type connectors on it?  I know
> breadboard spartan3 dev boards are available, but
> it would be cool to get something tiny, cheap, and easily
> connected to.  minus the switches, LEDs, 7segment
> LEDs, etc.
>