Urgent Help Needed!!!!!

Thank u Isaac.Now u also hav understood that there is no point in
discussing these topics anymore bcoz neither of the generations is
having mutual respects for each other.So burry this topic here itself.
Thank u once again.

Special Thanks to Ralf Hildebrandt
who ignored the formalities and helped with his valuable
suggestion.Thank u Ralf.

Chauhan wrote:

> Special Thanks to Ralf Hildebrandt
> who ignored the formalities and helped with his valuable

I do _not_ ignore the formalities! Reading this group is really hard.

1) high traffic
    It seems to be uninteresting? Ignore thread.
2) seldom minimal examples
    No time for such a bunch of code.
3) gimme code fast!!!!
    Should I do your homework?
4) plz can u adv?
    What? I am not a native English speaker. (Look at the email
    addresses. I am not the only one.) Although I can understand this, it
    makes "eye cancer".
5) I have that problem ...
    Did you try to solve it? What are your ideas?
...

O.k. the OP's posting was to that hard to read, but it may have been the 
the last straw that breaks the camel's back. Netcopping is not nice, but 
sometimes necessary. Here in this particular case it was an additional hint.
So it may be a good idea to form a clear and easily readable question 
and provide as much as information as required (but not more) to get an 
answer.
This is not a problem of the "generation gap". (I am 27.)
And at last: There are some real experts here in the group that give 
often very useful hints (regulars). I would recommend to think about, 
what they write, because otherwise you may hit soon the bottom of a 
killfile or the experts will leave.

I have seen newsgroups with much more strict formalities, that are much 
more readable. Here is the "wild west".

Ralf

In article <1142667911.725607.103910
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, coolsaroj@gmail.com says...
> Thank u Isaac.Now u also hav understood that there is no point in
> discussing these topics anymore bcoz neither of the generations is
> having mutual respects for each other.So burry this topic here itself.
> Thank u once again.

When you use things like "bcoz" and "u" it makes you look like a 
damn fool idiot.

It's OK to use that stuff when you're text messaging on a cell 
phone since people understand that it is hard to type and 
abbreviations make it easier.  And it's OK to do it in instant 
messaging or chat rooms where other people are doing too and it 
is the accepted way of doing things.

But when you are in a newsgroup where everyone else speaks 
proper english, even people who don't speak english as their 
native language, it's wrong.  It makes you look like your IQ is 
less than your age.  And continuing to argue that it is OK when 
you are told otherwise makes it look like your IQ is less than 
your shoe size.

Get over it and type proper words if you want anyone to take you 
seriously and answer your questions.  Otherwise we are all just 
going to continue to laugh at you.

John-

Well I can feel the heat building... but I would venture to say that
several of the engineering Yahoo Groups, plus my own engineers, have
taught me there really is an emerging consistency and 'normalness' to
the shorthand.  If key tech words, names, and acronyms are misspelled,
then yes that's bad and not excusable.

-Jeff

Jeff, the "older generation", especially when brought up with a Europen
and thus more rigorous education, with Latin and a couple of foreign
languages thrown in, finds this kind of misspelling "cancer on the
eye", as somebody else mentioned.
Personally, I even cringe at "lite" and "thru".
So, as long as you guys are interested in learning from us older folks,
let's stay with "King's English", or the American derivative. Once we
are 6-feet below, you can bastardize the spelling and the language to
your heart's content. A few hundred years of literature be damned...

Peter Alfke

In article <1142667911.725607.103910
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>, coolsaroj@gmail.com says...
> bcoz neither of the generations is
> having mutual respects for each other.

I would like to add to my previous response that purposely 
butchering the english language with misspellings like "bcoz," 
in a forum where proper english is the accepted norm, does not 
command any respect.  Period.  Generations have nothing to do 
with it.

I have no problem with people who don't speak english as their 
native language trying to post in english and doing a bad job of 
it.  After all, I don't speak any other language well enough to 
even attempt to type out a message such as this in anything but 
english.

I have no problem with the occasional accidental typo.  I don't 
even get worked up about common errors like people who don't 
understand when to use "then" vs. "than."  I usually consider it 
bad form to correct these sort of things unless you are actually 
having a discussion about grammar or language or spelling.

But nobody, not even non-english speakers, has ever misspelled 
"because" as "bcoz" unintentionally.  And intentional 
misspelling like this commands no respect.  

Keep it in your cell phone text messages where there is a good 
reason for abbreviations.

Isaac Bosompem wrote:
> Chauhan wrote:
> 
>>Well the above post was adressed not 2 u but 2 JJ definetly.Sorry for
>>giving u headache.
> 
> 
> No offense to you man, but I am a student as well. You must understand
> how important it is with communication. I read somewhere that the
> biggest problems with engineering grads is that they can not
> communicate effectively. This means poor writing or language skills. I
> do chat as you do with my friends on MSN, but when I come to post here
> I use proper English and sentence structure (well try). Just use proper
> structure and think of it as practice for your future career (perhaps
> you will stand out from the rest) :).
> 
> Plus a lot of the posters here are from a different generation, it is
> likely they will be unable to comprehend what you are saying.
> 
> -Isaac
> 

Isaac,
That is excellent advice.  It is sad to see people communicating in this 
sort of abbreviated phonetic street English when they could be 
developing their basic communication skills, as you suggest.  Colonial 
powers introduced Pidgin English in an attempt to restrict the concepts 
that could be communicated by the natives.  It is tragic to see a 
version of it so readily adopted by a whole sub-culture.

As a person from a 'different generation' I don't agree with you that we 
are 'unable to comprehend' the texting garbage now used in some 
postings.  I find that it is possible to work my way through this stuff, 
  and that with some effort I can generally work out what the writer is 
trying to say.  The problem is that it is a tedious process, and I am 
tempted not to bother.

This abbreviated English used by these posters does have some benefits 
to them.  It can disguise the fact that they can't spell, it shows that 
they are 'cool' and it is easier to type, if they are using a cell-phone.

When a person posts in this form they are communicating in the way which 
they apparently find most convenient personally.  Unfortunately it 
appears that they simply can not be bothered communicating in the way 
which best suits their audience; the people whose help they are seeking. 
  The naive arrogance behind this is a matter of continuous wonderment 
to me.

Regards,
John

Jeff Brower wrote:
> Well I can feel the heat building... but I would venture to say that
> several of the engineering Yahoo Groups, plus my own engineers, have
> taught me there really is an emerging consistency and 'normalness' to
> the shorthand.  If key tech words, names, and acronyms are misspelled,
> then yes that's bad and not excusable.

Everything engineers do is language based.  Whether it is the use of
english (or other popularly used formal and well documented language)
for technical communication, or the use of a formal language for
description / implementation of a design.  Both of these are rules
based systems.  If one has had a lifetime (or even just a few years) of
experience with the first and has been incapable of mastering (or
unwilling to master) it, I am unlikely to believe that he will be
capable or willing to do the same with the later.

The minimal effort necessary to write and speak with precise language
that the original poster saved was far less than the effort required by
the average reader to understand the his post.  Multiply that by the
dozens or even hundreds of people that read that post, and it is simply
not economically efficient to use the informal language.  When I play
the role of employer I get to make the economic argument, as I am
paying both the writer and the reader(s).  When this is not the case,
and I am only responsible for one party, this becomes a simple issue of
respect; an issue of respect for my and / or another's time.

Respect... the momentum of my diatribe is that of freight train
barreling out of control...

Simple good manners are the way that we show respect to others.
Manners, like the use of precise language, should not be turned on and
off at will.  I simply don't buy the argument that one is capable of
doing this for two reasons.  The first is that one often does not know
until after the fact if the use of the informal language or the
ignoriance of good manners will be a source of offense.  The second is
that the "unimportant" situations provide practice so that the
important situations go appropriately.

If one is a current student that wants to be employable when she
graduates, I offer two pieces of advice.  The first is to take as many
writing intensive classes in school as time allows.  The second, buy a
copy of Emily Post's "Etiquette", and read the sections that apply to
daily life.  Refer back this book when new life circumstances arise and
more of this system needs to be understood.  Etiquette, like language,
is simply another formal system that needs to be learned and practiced
to be mastered.

I really don't care how smart a person is, if he can not play nice with
others (i.e. show respect for) there simply is not room on my team for
such an individual.  We find plenty of time for fun and informality at
this office.  Much of the work we do use intensely creative.  BUT, I do
not believe one can think outside of the system, without understanding
and respecting the system.

For the record I am a 32 years old.  Good language and good manners are
ageless.


Regards,
Erik.

---
Erik Widding
President
Birger Engineering, Inc.

 (mail) 100 Boylston St #1070; Boston, MA 02116
(voice) 617.695.9233
  (fax) 617.695.9234
  (web) http://www.birger.com

On 19 Mar 2006 09:36:42 -0800, "Erik Widding" <widding@birger.com>
wrote:

>If one is a current student that wants to be employable when she
>graduates, I offer two pieces of advice.  The first is to take as many
>writing intensive classes in school as time allows.  The second, buy a
>copy of Emily Post's "Etiquette", and read the sections that apply to
>daily life.  Refer back this book when new life circumstances arise and
>more of this system needs to be understood.  Etiquette, like language,
>is simply another formal system that needs to be learned and practiced
>to be mastered.
>
>I really don't care how smart a person is, if he can not play nice with
>others (i.e. show respect for) there simply is not room on my team for
>such an individual.  We find plenty of time for fun and informality at
>this office.  Much of the work we do is intensely creative.  BUT, I do
>not believe one can think outside of the system, without understanding
>and respecting the system.

I have absolutely *no* interest in entangling myself in this thread,
except to commend the two paragraphs above to anyone, young or old,
who wants to make a serious go of it in engineering.

Bob Perlman
Cambrian Design Works