PLD610

does anyone have any information about this chip?
I heard it mentioned in the same sentence as a 22v10 but I havent
been able to dig up any pin outs/schematics online.

Thanks

I think I did my first EP610 design (Altera's original PLD family) back in 
1989.
Why do you want to know about what equates to a 400 year old man?

"samiam" <samiamSPAMTHIS@spamthis.org> wrote in message 
news:mHP0g.164$ID2.163@fe08.lga...
> does anyone have any information about this chip?
> I heard it mentioned in the same sentence as a 22v10 but I havent
> been able to dig up any pin outs/schematics online.
>
> Thanks 

John_H wrote:
> I think I did my first EP610 design (Altera's original PLD family) back in 
> 1989.
> Why do you want to know about what equates to a 400 year old man?

LOL
I am about to stock up on 200 of these chips ... and would jump at the
opportunity if they are ANYTHING like the 22v10 ...

Basically I need to stock up on these for my hobby work and I am being
offered an unbelievable price on them.

Problem is ... I dont have any info on these PLD's

What can you tell me about it?
How does it differ from the 22v10?
How many inputs?
How many outputs?
Number of Minterms?
Programmable output?
Registered output?

Thanmks

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:40:59 -0400, samiam
<samiamSPAMTHIS@spamthis.org> wrote:

>John_H wrote:
>> I think I did my first EP610 design (Altera's original PLD family) back in 
>> 1989.
>> Why do you want to know about what equates to a 400 year old man?
>
>LOL
>I am about to stock up on 200 of these chips ... and would jump at the
>opportunity if they are ANYTHING like the 22v10 ...
>
>Basically I need to stock up on these for my hobby work and I am being
>offered an unbelievable price on them.
>
>Problem is ... I dont have any info on these PLD's
>
>What can you tell me about it?
>How does it differ from the 22v10?
>How many inputs?
>How many outputs?
>Number of Minterms?
>Programmable output?
>Registered output?
>
>Thanmks

http://www.altera.com/literature/ds/classic.pdf

samiam wrote:

> I am about to stock up on 200 of these chips ... and would jump at the
> opportunity if they are ANYTHING like the 22v10 ...

You might look before you leap.

You could a buy brand new 3000a series
device (much better than a 22V10)
for $1.25 each at quantity 1.
http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll/showfilter?lookup=1,30,3076
Fully documented
http://www.altera.com/literature/ds/m3000a.pdf
free software
http://www.altera.com/products/software/products/quartus2web/sof-quarwebmain.html


        -- Mike Treseler

samiam wrote:
> John_H wrote:
> 
>> I think I did my first EP610 design (Altera's original PLD family) 
>> back in 1989.
>> Why do you want to know about what equates to a 400 year old man?
> 
> 
> LOL
> I am about to stock up on 200 of these chips ... and would jump at the
> opportunity if they are ANYTHING like the 22v10 ...
> 
> Basically I need to stock up on these for my hobby work and I am being
> offered an unbelievable price on them.
> 
> Problem is ... I dont have any info on these PLD's
> 
> What can you tell me about it?
> How does it differ from the 22v10?
> How many inputs?
> How many outputs?
> Number of Minterms?
> Programmable output?
> Registered output?

  You have not asked how to program them yet, which might be
the most important question :)
  You will need to generate code, and also get the code into the 
chips.... ( which I believe are OTP )

  -jg

"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message 
news:4443f8f0@clear.net.nz...
>  You have not asked how to program them yet, which might be
> the most important question :)
>  You will need to generate code, and also get the code into the chips.... 
> ( which I believe are OTP )
>
>  -jg

Some of the classic parts had the clear window on ceramic parts.  But they 
*all* required the dedicated Altera programmer (or 3rd party programmer with 
appropriate adapter) and were not in-system programmable.  We're talking 27 
years ago.

There are better options.

I imagine you could get people to pay you to take inventory off their hands 
if they still have some lying around... they're worth *that* much! 

> Some of the classic parts had the clear window on ceramic parts.  But they 
> *all* required the dedicated Altera programmer (or 3rd party programmer with 
> appropriate adapter) and were not in-system programmable.  We're talking 27 
> years ago.

I was going to get some information before I made the leap ... And we 
are not talking big money here ... something like $20 bucks for all 200
or so chips

But you raise a good point ... I need to be sure my device programmer 
can handle it (I have a BP MICRO and a TOP 2048) ... and that I would
not need to invest in any new hardware or software (pal/pld assembler/
compiler)

Thanks again for the heads up

> http://www.altera.com/literature/ds/classic.pdf

Thank you very much!

samiam wrote:
> I am about to stock up on 200 of these chips ... and would jump at the
> opportunity if they are ANYTHING like the 22v10 ...

You're about to waste your money, IMNSHO.  Especially if you don't already
have a universal programmer that can handle them.

And waste time having to UV erase them.

They're sorta like a PAL between the PAL20xx and PAL22V10.  But they're
way inferior to something like an XC9500 series CPLD.

> Basically I need to stock up on these for my hobby work and I am being
> offered an unbelievable price on them.

If they're free, they're too expensive.  (If a deal seems too good to
be true, it probably is.)

You can buy a brand-shiny-new Xilinx XC9536 in a PLCC for $3.30,
quantity one from Digikey.  That has 36 macrocells, and is way better
than any of the old EPxxx parts.  The XC9536XL part is 3.3V and costs
even less.  And they're supported with current development software, and
are in-circuit programmable (no expensive "universal programmer" or UV
erasing necessary).

I'm sure Altera must make some nice inexpensive CPLDs these days too.

I've got scads of old EPLDs from various vendors, some of which were
quite nice parts *BACK THEN*, but I wouldn't dream of using any of
them even for hobby work today.  Life's too short to spend it fighting
obsolete chips to save spending a dollar or two on a better, well-
supported modern part.

Eric