Differential terminations in Virtex2 Pro.Attempt II!

Dear All,
    I'll phrase my questions differently from my last attempt!

Q1.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS input with differential termination in
my design, e.g. LVDS_25_DT, then I power its VCCO with 3.3V, what happens? I
think the input DC thresholds should stay the same, as they're powered from
VCCAUX, but what about the termination impedance?
Q2.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS output in my design, then I power its
VCCO with 3.3V, what happens? What are the output's DC characteristics?
Q3.    Will Xilinx publish pictures of the various outputs so I can figure
this out myself? You know, those little diagrams with transistors, current
sources and stuff that a lot of other datasheets have!

    Thanks all, Syms.

Symon,

Let us try to get it this time!

See below,

Austin

Symon wrote:
> Dear All,
>     I'll phrase my questions differently from my last attempt!
> 
> Q1.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS input with differential termination in
> my design, e.g. LVDS_25_DT, then I power its VCCO with 3.3V, what happens? I
> think the input DC thresholds should stay the same, as they're powered from
> VCCAUX, but what about the termination impedance?
Just fine, no problem.

> Q2.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS output in my design, then I power its
> VCCO with 3.3V, what happens?
You exceed the abs max specs, and you void any warranties or guarantees.

  What are the output's DC characteristics?
> Q3.    Will Xilinx publish pictures of the various outputs so I can figure
> this out myself? You know, those little diagrams with transistors, current
> sources and stuff that a lot of other datasheets have!
The schematics for the IOBs are so large that they crash spice 
simulators.  So, no, we are not going to publish any schematics, other 
than the simplified ones that are already in the datasheet and user guides.

> 
>     Thanks all, Syms.
> 
> 

Hi Austin,
    Thanks for that, very much appreciated, I knew you'd be able to help!
So, I've added some more questions!
            thanks again, Syms.

p.s. Please don't think I'm ungrateful, I'm a big fan of what you guys have
done with the IOs! The on-chip termination is a BIG help, as is the
excellent wide common mode range of the diff inputs!


"Austin Lesea" <austin@xilinx.com> wrote in message
news:bpti1q$hos1@cliff.xsj.xilinx.com...
> Symon,
>
> Let us try to get it this time!
>
> See below,
>
> Austin
>
> Symon wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >     I'll phrase my questions differently from my last attempt!
> >
> > Q1.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS input with differential termination
in
> > my design, e.g. LVDS_25_DT, then I power its VCCO with 3.3V, what
happens? I
> > think the input DC thresholds should stay the same, as they're powered
from
> > VCCAUX, but what about the termination impedance?
> Just fine, no problem.

OK, cool! But why does it say in tiny writing in  "Figure 22: LVDS
Differential Termination Usage Examples" from "DS083-2 (v2.8) September 10,
2003", the Virtex-II Pro functional description:-
"NOTE: Only 2.5V LVDS standards are supported (VCCO = 2.5V only)" ?
Will the latest software prevent me from combining LVDS_25_DT and LVCMOS33
in the same bank?
It says in answer 17244:-
"Requirement to Turn on the On-chip Input Differential Termination
The VCCO of the I/O bank must be connected to 2.5V to provide 100 ohms of
effective termination.
NOTE: Starting ISE 6.1i, this requirement is implemented in the software. "
Are there any work-arounds? Like use LVCMOS25s and then power VCCO @ 3.3V?

>
> > Q2.    If I instantiate a 2.5V LVDS output in my design, then I power
its
> > VCCO with 3.3V, what happens?
> You exceed the abs max specs, and you void any warranties or guarantees.
>

I couldn't be sure I'd found this specification. I found "Table 8: LVDS DC
Specifications" in DS083-3 where there is a max for VCCO, but it's not clear
to me whether this is an abs max spec, or a spec for VCCO to meet the other
DC specs in the table. Could you clarify for me?
I presume 3.3V won't break the LVDS circuitry as it's probably still powered
from VCCO when LVCMOS33, for example, is used in the IOB. Correct?

>   What are the output's DC characteristics?
> > Q3.    Will Xilinx publish pictures of the various outputs so I can
figure
> > this out myself? You know, those little diagrams with transistors,
current
> > sources and stuff that a lot of other datasheets have!
> The schematics for the IOBs are so large that they crash spice
> simulators.  So, no, we are not going to publish any schematics, other
> than the simplified ones that are already in the datasheet and user
guides.
>

Fair enough, thought I'd try anyway!

> >
> >     Thanks all, Syms.
> >
> >
>