Spartan3 availability

> Not sure what you mean -- asking "how long have them been out" makes my
> point. They're out.

I was making the point that you can hardly compare the
availablility of a mature product that's in full
production with one that's just being released, which
is what this thread's discussion has been about.

Why aren't you using 10KXXXs? They were available
years ago.

> You can get them.  Now.

You can get SpartanIIs. Now.

A better comparison will be to wait and see how Altera
handles the relase of CycloneII next year.

Nial.

------------------------------------------------
Nial Stewart Developments Ltd
FPGA and High Speed Digital Design
www.nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk

>I think it is more interesting that this thread has been discussed for a
>full day now and no one from Xilinx has commented.  Especially when one
>poster mentioned rumors of yield issues.  I would expect Xilinx to be
>jumping all over that if it were just a rumor.  

Seems like they have read your message.
Anyway, in my eyes they should respond without this little
help from you :-)

And about availability: someone could get SW model of  chip and work
with it for a year (till final version of code). Someone needs to put
this chip into excessive real-time testing - because there is NO
CHANCE to simulate my _whole_ design (where the fpga is the only one
component of system) - and this is the reason why I'm in need of
_real_ parts. Of course, these 'early' parts can be engineering
samples, not from full production (if I got the differences between
them).
I'm not using zilions of parts?
When I start to use such quantities, I'd go to asic world :-)



-- 
Jerry

Let me set the record straight on the Cyclone front. Altera delivered 
over 50,000 units of each device into customer and distribution partners 
within the first 1-3 months of each device shipping. Devices 
transitioned from ES to production in less than two months for each 
device. Every single device shipped to customers ahead of the schedule 
we that committed to customers via our announcements, our sales team and 
www site.  We are currently approaching the 1 millionth unit shipped in 
the family. This in only 12 months from first silicon shipment. For the 
record, that shipment is < 3 months ahead of first Spartan 3 shipment 
(at least from public claims)

The bottom line is that all five devices in the family are in volume 
production, available off the shelf to anyone who wants them. 
Additionally, we have multiple customers taking thousands of units per 
month. If you need low-cost FPGAs in any volume and regardless of the 
size of your company, Cyclone is ready to go when you are.




Tim Colleran
Altera Corporation

Apparently you didn't know that Cyclone and Spartan 3 are contemporaries?
Both are new products just being released, and squarely aimed at low-cost
markets.  Both were introduced to the public about the same time, to much
fanfare and to ambitious pricing and availability schedules.

The key difference is that Altera met or beat their advertised schedules,
whereas Xilinx has consistently missed their targets, and their schedules
continue to slip.  You can buy a promise, or you can buy a part.

Again, you make my point by calling Cyclone a "mature product that's in full
production".  Not bad for a product that is just being released.  They've
done a pretty good job if you think of new Cyclone parts as "mature"
already.  Altera is building a good track record regarding what they say and
what they actually deliver.  Not perfect, as shown by their recent
backpeddling on some Stratix termination features, but still very, very
respectable.

Lastly, I expect I'll be able to get Cyclone 2 in production quantites long
before you ever see any Spartan 4's (or whatever they call the succesor to
S3), which is what they'll be competing against.  Hopefully Cyclone 2 will
roll out as smoothly as Cyclone 1's did.  The odds favor it.


"Nial Stewart" <nial@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3fe4737c$0$11219$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
> > Not sure what you mean -- asking "how long have them been out" makes my
> > point. They're out.
>
> I was making the point that you can hardly compare the
> availablility of a mature product that's in full
> production with one that's just being released, which
> is what this thread's discussion has been about.
>
> Why aren't you using 10KXXXs? They were available
> years ago.
>
> > You can get them.  Now.
>
> You can get SpartanIIs. Now.
>
> A better comparison will be to wait and see how Altera
> handles the relase of CycloneII next year.
>
> Nial.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Nial Stewart Developments Ltd
> FPGA and High Speed Digital Design
> www.nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk
>
>

Patrick MacGregor <patrickmacgregor@comcast.net> wrote:
: Apparently you didn't know that Cyclone and Spartan 3 are contemporaries?
: Both are new products just being released, and squarely aimed at low-cost
: markets.  Both were introduced to the public about the same time, to much
: fanfare and to ambitious pricing and availability schedules.

Cyclone was announced Sep 2002, Spartan April 2003. When where Cyclone
available  from distributors?

Bye
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

Xilinx has done this before with delivery dates...Nothing new, and yep, the
big customers get first dibs on everything. Spartan III is not on ship hold
and the typical ramp-ups that I saw all the way back to the 4K family are
issues again. Now I design a dual foot-print (if I can) or a integration
path to the wonderful new part promised to me by our vendor. So be patient
kids, Santa will show up with the goodies! The distributers are relaying
bullshit stories told to them by Xilinx, who, always get there with the
parts eventually.

>Let me set the record straight on the Cyclone front. Altera delivered 

That's why I'm using A-brand :-)
Also I'm getting happy that Altera started monitoring this group.

-- 
Jerry

> Apparently you didn't know that Cyclone and Spartan 3 are contemporaries?
> Both are new products just being released, and squarely aimed at low-cost
> markets.

Your dictionary must have a different definition of 'contemporary'
than mine.

Cyclone samples were available last February.

> Altera is building a good track record regarding what they say and
> what they actually deliver.  Not perfect, as shown by their recent
> backpeddling on some Stratix termination features, but still very, very
> respectable.

I wouldn't argue with this.

The thread was about availability of devices which are _currently_
being released and you said you use Altera devices because you
can get devices which have been out for nearly a year.

The same argument could be used for Xilinx becasue SpartanIIs
are freely available.



Nial

The Altera parts still don't have a workable equivalent of the Xilinx SRL-16,
which can be used to huge advantage in DSP applications...if you code to it.
Otherwise, I'd agree.


>

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930     Fax 401/884-7950
email ray@andraka.com
http://www.andraka.com

 "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
  temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                                          -Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:
> The Altera parts still don't have a workable equivalent of the Xilinx SRL-16,
> which can be used to huge advantage in DSP applications...if you code to it.
> Otherwise, I'd agree.

What's the downside of using the stratix block memory shifters?

     -- Mike Treseler