Virtex-5 Webpack?

Hello! For a long time my lab purchased the lower-cost ISE Base-X kit,
which was recently discontinued and its functionality was rolled into
WebPack (which is available for free!) Base-X always seemed to contain
support for the two smallest of Xilinx's high-end devices. The latest
WebPack, however, does not contain support for the V5s. Is there a plan
to have V5 support in WebPack in the future?

I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.

Thanks, 
       ...Eric

jonas@mit.edu wrote:

> I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
> development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
> in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
> on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.

Why not using Altera then? AFAIK the web edition of Quartus supports all
Altera FPGAs.

The only problem is when you use Linux: For Windows, Quartus is free, but
for Linux you have to pay for it, which makes development for me a bit
harder at work, because I'm using Linux for developing for an embedded
system and in parallel I need a second computer for synthesizing for the
FPGA on this system. Would be much better if Xilinx and Altera would
provide all development software for free for both platforms, maybe then
they would even sell more chips.

-- 
Frank Buss, fb@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

"Frank Buss" <fb@frank-buss.de> wrote in message 
news:yun4h7muz846.pwvoght3r698.dlg@40tude.net...
> jonas@mit.edu wrote:
>
>> I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
>> development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
>> in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
>> on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
>
> Why not using Altera then? AFAIK the web edition of Quartus supports all
> Altera FPGAs.
>
Nope. The web edition only supports the smallest Stratix I & II parts.

Slurp 

"Slurp" <slip@slap.slop> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:4555fdd2$0$8737$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>
> "Frank Buss" <fb@frank-buss.de> wrote in message 
> news:yun4h7muz846.pwvoght3r698.dlg@40tude.net...
>> jonas@mit.edu wrote:
>>
>>> I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
>>> development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
>>> in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
>>> on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
>>
>> Why not using Altera then? AFAIK the web edition of Quartus supports all
>> Altera FPGAs.
>>
> Nope. The web edition only supports the smallest Stratix I & II parts.
>
> Slurp
well altera webedition *DOES* support at least one part of each high end 
family
WebPack does *NOT* support V-5 at all

Antti 

> The only problem is when you use Linux: For Windows, Quartus is free, but
> for Linux you have to pay for it, which makes development for me a bit
> harder at work, because I'm using Linux for developing for an embedded
> system and in parallel I need a second computer for synthesizing for the
> FPGA on this system. Would be much better if Xilinx and Altera would
> provide all development software for free for both platforms, maybe then
> they would even sell more chips.

Yea, I'm in the same boat -- my uClinux dev tools all run under linux,
and right now all the xilinx tools run really well on the same machine.
Plus, we've invested a lot of time and energy working with the xilinx
toolchain and hardware -- the thought of switching is somewhat scary!
    ...Eric

jonas@mit.edu wrote:
> Hello! For a long time my lab purchased the lower-cost ISE Base-X kit,
> which was recently discontinued and its functionality was rolled into
> WebPack (which is available for free!) Base-X always seemed to contain
> support for the two smallest of Xilinx's high-end devices. The latest
> WebPack, however, does not contain support for the V5s. Is there a plan
> to have V5 support in WebPack in the future?
> 
> I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
> development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
> in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
> on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
> 
> Thanks, 
>        ...Eric

If you're a university environment, contact Xilinx about their 
University Program.  While you might not get hotline support, you can 
get significantly greater tool access without paying full commercial 
license costs.  The FPGA vendors *are* interested in getting new FPGA 
designers into the field with solid tool experience.  Preferably their 
tools.

Not sure what you're trying to do in your labs...  I know when I was in
undergrad we certainly never got to anything so complicated in a
single semester that we couldn't have done in a V4....   From your
message, I can't tell if you already have V5 hardware or not... But, if
not, digilent makes what looks like a pretty powerful eval board based
on a V4 FX12 chip - it sells for only $299 - with is pretty good,
considering the Spartan 3E board is 150!  There's also a virtex2 board
that has an academic price of 299 (vs. a commerical price of over a
grand)... but the virtex2's are gettin to be pretty outdated it seems.

But yea... I'd be willing to bet the licensing for ISE through the
university program is pretty reasonably priced.  At least if xilinx is
smart it is, I know that when I'm comparing equivalent xilinx/altera
chips I look at which tools I know already.



John_H wrote:
> jonas@mit.edu wrote:
> > Hello! For a long time my lab purchased the lower-cost ISE Base-X kit,
> > which was recently discontinued and its functionality was rolled into
> > WebPack (which is available for free!) Base-X always seemed to contain
> > support for the two smallest of Xilinx's high-end devices. The latest
> > WebPack, however, does not contain support for the V5s. Is there a plan
> > to have V5 support in WebPack in the future?
> >
> > I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
> > development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
> > in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
> > on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >        ...Eric
>
> If you're a university environment, contact Xilinx about their
> University Program.  While you might not get hotline support, you can
> get significantly greater tool access without paying full commercial
> license costs.  The FPGA vendors *are* interested in getting new FPGA
> designers into the field with solid tool experience.  Preferably their
> tools.

My name is Bud Kelly and I am the Area Channel Manager for Altera based
here in Chelmsford. We have a very comprehensive University Program,
including software and boards, that I would be happy to discuss with
you. I can be reached at bkelly@altera.com.


jonas@mit.edu wrote:
> Hello! For a long time my lab purchased the lower-cost ISE Base-X kit,
> which was recently discontinued and its functionality was rolled into
> WebPack (which is available for free!) Base-X always seemed to contain
> support for the two smallest of Xilinx's high-end devices. The latest
> WebPack, however, does not contain support for the V5s. Is there a plan
> to have V5 support in WebPack in the future?
>
> I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
> development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
> in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
> on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
> 
> Thanks, 
>        ...Eric

Bud,

Thanks for letting us know that Altera has a university program, too.

As for newer devices, ask your professor to contact the XUP program, and 
then request what you would like.  We provide full versions of the 
software to Universities if they have a project that is suitable.

It may be that your institution already has what you need.

As a student, however, we can not just ship you anything you ask for, as 
we first need your academic representative to validate your requests.

Our Xilinx Research group also sponsors student projects, reseach, and 
thesis (as appropriate).  Please consider Xilinx for summer internships, 
as well (I always hire one or two, and it is not only summertime).  You 
may email your resume directly to me.  I will try to get it to the 
groups that may have requirements.

Austin (for Xilinx)

bkelly@altera.com wrote:

> My name is Bud Kelly and I am the Area Channel Manager for Altera based
> here in Chelmsford. We have a very comprehensive University Program,
> including software and boards, that I would be happy to discuss with
> you. I can be reached at bkelly@altera.com.
> 
> 
> jonas@mit.edu wrote:
> 
>>Hello! For a long time my lab purchased the lower-cost ISE Base-X kit,
>>which was recently discontinued and its functionality was rolled into
>>WebPack (which is available for free!) Base-X always seemed to contain
>>support for the two smallest of Xilinx's high-end devices. The latest
>>WebPack, however, does not contain support for the V5s. Is there a plan
>>to have V5 support in WebPack in the future?
>>
>>I know the standard Xilinx line on this is "If you're doing high-end
>>development, ISE tools are not going to be a big part of your cost" but
>>in our environment where we have a bunch of students doing development
>>on prototype boards, the license costs can add up quickly.
>>
>>Thanks, 
>>       ...Eric
> 
> 

Austin wrote:
> Bud,
> 
> Thanks for letting us know that Altera has a university program, too.
> 
> As for newer devices, ask your professor to contact the XUP program, and 
> then request what you would like.  We provide full versions of the 
> software to Universities if they have a project that is suitable.
> 
> It may be that your institution already has what you need.

Nothing like the prospect of loosing the designs to Altera, to
snap Xilinx out of Doze mode :)

Problem is, Austin, that for every prospect that asks in this NG,
probably 99 others simply made the decision based on available tools.

[Some students might actually want to do homework, aka work at home?]

Others might be using smaller chips, but just want to build to V5, as
a training example - viz: "So, How much better IS this V5? "...

To me, Xilinx can chop V5 out of webpack, and mull the consequences.

-jg