FPGA workstation - should I wait for Window Vista?

Hi all,

I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
wait for Windows Vista become available first.
Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
Does it work okay?
Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
(sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)
Thanks.

regards,

Joe

Joseph <joseph.yiu@obviously-not-a-valid-domain.com> wrote:
>I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
>I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
>wait for Windows Vista become available first.
>Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
>Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
>Does it work okay?
>Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
>(sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)

What is two months waiting time worth to you ..?

What hinders you to use MS-XP after Vista is released..?

You most likely will pay for hardware that will be consumed by Vista Bells &
Whistles that won't benefit your vhdl/verilog processing.

Joseph wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
> I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
> wait for Windows Vista become available first.
> Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
> Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
> Does it work okay?
> Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
> (sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)
> Thanks.
>
> regards,
>
> Joe

Have to agree with pbdel, Vista is a giant piece of whatever.

If W2k or XP or Linux works well already what possible reason could
there be to add the extra burden that Vista imposes. From what I hear,
Vista takes more things away like your right to rebuild your hardware
the way you like, it locks things up with more DRM and more
restrictions on changing your base.configuration. It also uses far more
resources to do the same job even without the Aero candy.

Still we will have to deal with Vista eventually, shame that MS wants
to make W2K go away and then XP when they are working just fine.

just my 2c
John Jakson

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:19:56 +0000, Joseph
<joseph.yiu@obviously-not-a-valid-domain.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
>I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
>wait for Windows Vista become available first.
>Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
>Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
>Does it work okay?
>Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
>(sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)

You can turn off much of Vista's eye candy which takes quite a bit of
cpu cycles. In addition the main saving grace of Vista is that it has
a 64 bit version where ISE and other tools (I've tried ISE 8.2 under
64 bit Vista) get a full 4G adress space so if your design doesn't fit
to 2G but fits 4G you're still in luck.

pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid wrote:
> Joseph <joseph.yiu@obviously-not-a-valid-domain.com> wrote:
> 
>>I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
>>I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
>>wait for Windows Vista become available first.
>>Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
>>Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
>>Does it work okay?
>>Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
>>(sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)
> 
> 
> What is two months waiting time worth to you ..?
> 

If I buy it now I can get everything setup during my Christmas holiday.
If I wait two months I could be too busy to sort things out afterward.


> What hinders you to use MS-XP after Vista is released..?

MS will possibly eventually stop supporting XP.
(e.g. no more service pack and security updates)
Some existing software will eventually move over to Vista.

Also, it is often necessary to learn new stuffs.
When you work in IT fields people, e.g. family and friends,
expect you to know everything, from changing toner of their
printers (brands you've never used before) to fixing
virus/spyware infected computer. *sign* :(

> 
> You most likely will pay for hardware that will be consumed by Vista Bells &
> Whistles that won't benefit your vhdl/verilog processing.
> 

Processing power is not really my biggest concern. I am using
the Xilinx Spartan-3 starter kit anyway (only a 200k FPGA).
It is purely for learning, not for real work stuffs.
But I want to make sure it can run existing tools that I am using now.

Glad to know that someone has actually used ISE 8.2 in 64-bit Vista :)
I don't think I will spend that much money to get a home PC with
4G RAM (2GB RAM more likely).

Joe

You do not have to wait for Vista to get 64 bits. WinXP64 is available
today and works just fine. One advantage of WinXP64 is that 32 bit
Windows Apps have access to 4GB of address space. On the WinXP32 32 bit
Windows applications have access to at most 3GB of memory, if the
application is linked with a special flag.

- Subroto Datta
Altera Corp.

On Nov 29, 8:20 am, mk <kal*@dspia.*comdelete> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:19:56 +0000, Joseph
>
> <joseph....@obviously-not-a-valid-domain.com> wrote:
> >Hi all,
>
> >I wonder if anyone here are in the same situation as me.
> >I am think of buying a new PC, but wondering if I should
> >wait for Windows Vista become available first.
> >Have anyone try running FPGA tools (Xilinx Webpack,
> >Modelsim XE, Quartus, Cygwin) on Windows Vista beta?
> >Does it work okay?
> >Or should I get a "Vista capable" PC now and upgrade later?
> >(sound too much hassle to me, but it might be better?)You can turn off much of Vista's eye candy which takes quite a bit of
> cpu cycles. In addition the main saving grace of Vista is that it has
> a 64 bit version where ISE and other tools (I've tried ISE 8.2 under
> 64 bit Vista) get a full 4G adress space so if your design doesn't fit
> to 2G but fits 4G you're still in luck.

Subroto Datta wrote:
> You do not have to wait for Vista to get 64 bits. WinXP64 is available
> today and works just fine.
... and don't forget about Linux. ISE8.2 (I can't comment on Altera's
tools) now (I thin SP2 did the trick) runs fine on just about any
64bit-Linux I've tried (OpenSuSE, Ubuntu, Fedora...). Available today
AND free ;)

cu,
Sean

-- 
My email address is only valid until the end of the month.
Go figure what the address is going to be after that...

I would just go with XP. I will admit that I'm skeptical of anything
new from Microsoft and I wait 3-6 months before making the switch, if
not longer.

> MS will possibly eventually stop supporting XP.
> (e.g. no more service pack and security updates)
> Some existing software will eventually move over to Vista.
>

I don't think this should be a concern. I read that Microsoft just
stopped (within the past year) supporting Windows 98. So I think you
have a few years before they stop supporting XP.

-cmw

On 29 Nov 2006 08:56:41 -0800, "Subroto Datta" <sdatta@altera.com>
wrote:

>You do not have to wait for Vista to get 64 bits. WinXP64 is available
>today and works just fine. One advantage of WinXP64 is that 32 bit
>Windows Apps have access to 4GB of address space. On the WinXP32 32 bit
>Windows applications have access to at most 3GB of memory, if the
>application is linked with a special flag.

The device driver support for and application compatibility of Vista
64 is much better than XP 64 (I have both installed). As a 64 bit
windows, I don't think XP 64 is an option anymore.

Joseph schrieb:


> MS will possibly eventually stop supporting XP.

Hey, I have moved from WinME to WinXP during this April. During the last
months before it became more and more impractical to use WinME any
because drivers were not supported any more and some Games refused to
run. This means, that you have at least 3 years, before you even have to
think about moving to the next operating system.

It is not the lack of support by MS, that makes the OS old, but the
support of the other software companies.


And let me add: At work I use a SunRay connected at a 400MHz (4 CPU)
Sparc Server. Before this I was using a SparcStation 5 with 333MHz - not
too much slower! Only for really big simulations or big synthesis runs I
use the big Sun Fire with 1,2GHz. (Simulator is Cadence NCSim and
Synthesis tool Synopsys Design Analyzer runnig at Solaris 5.8 for me.)
-> So I would say that top speed and always the latest System is not
necessary - especially for hardware design.

Ralf