While both Device/package combinations are listed in the datasheets, I have not seen any of these devices "out in the wild" (means available with Digikey(*)/Nuhorizons/Avnet). I bothered Xilinx people at both Electronica 2006 and Embedded World 2007 about availability/plans for availability for these devices, but never heared back. Does anybody have more information about these device/package combination? Thanks (*) Digikey list the XC3S4004PQ208C as available on demand with minimum order of 120 pieces. -- Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
XC3S400 and XC3S500E in PQ208
Started by ●February 26, 2007
Reply by ●February 26, 20072007-02-26
On Feb 26, 11:32 am, Uwe Bonnes <b...@hertz.ikp.physik.tu- darmstadt.de> wrote:> While both Device/package combinations are listed in the datasheets, I have > not seen any of these devices "out in the wild" (means available with > Digikey(*)/Nuhorizons/Avnet).Avnet lists some parts as available : XC3S400-4PQ208I XC3S400-4PQG208C XC3S400-4PQG208I XC3S400-5PQ208C XC3S400-5PQG208C Real availability is another issue, which I happen to be interested too. Josep Duran
Reply by ●February 27, 20072007-02-27
On Feb 26, 2:32 am, Uwe Bonnes <b...@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:> While both Device/package combinations are listed in the datasheets, I have > not seen any of these devices "out in the wild" (means available with > Digikey(*)/Nuhorizons/Avnet). I bothered Xilinx people at both Electronica > 2006 and Embedded World 2007 about availability/plans for availability for > these devices, but never heared back. > > Does anybody have more information about these device/package combination? > > Thanks > > (*) Digikey list the XC3S4004PQ208C as available on demand with minimum > order of 120 pieces. > > -- > Uwe Bonnes b...@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de > > Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt > --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------Hi Uwe, Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've passed this on to our distribution manager and he's working to remedy the situation. Both the XC3S400 and the XC3S500E FPGAs are most definitely available. The working theory is that the PQ208 package option is not the highest running product combinations. Consequently, our distributors aren't stocking them. I fully understand the attraction of the QFP package, however. -- Steve Knapp
Reply by ●February 27, 20072007-02-27
"Steve Knapp (Xilinx Spartan-3 Generation FPGAs)" <steve.knapp@xilinx.com> wrote: ...> Hi Uwe,> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've passed this on to our > distribution manager and he's working to remedy the situation. Both > the XC3S400 and the XC3S500E FPGAs are most definitely available. The > working theory is that the PQ208 package option is not the highest > running product combinations. Consequently, our distributors aren't > stocking them. I fully understand the attraction of the QFP package, > however.As explained in the XC3SAN thread, the availability of big PQ208 parts may not lead itself to big demand on the "many-pin" PQ parts. But the ease of prototyping may lead to more design wins and so for demand for "not-so-many" PQ and for BGA parts... -- Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Reply by ●February 27, 20072007-02-27
"Josep Duran" <djj08230@gmail.com> wrote:>On Feb 26, 11:32 am, Uwe Bonnes <b...@hertz.ikp.physik.tu- >darmstadt.de> wrote: >> While both Device/package combinations are listed in the datasheets, I have >> not seen any of these devices "out in the wild" (means available with >> Digikey(*)/Nuhorizons/Avnet). > > >Avnet lists some parts as available : > >XC3S400-4PQ208I >XC3S400-4PQG208C >XC3S400-4PQG208I >XC3S400-5PQ208C >XC3S400-5PQG208C > >Real availability is another issue, which I happen to be interested >too.I got a quote for a small quantity XC3S400-5PQ208C from Avnet a while ago and they said the devices could be delivered from stock... -- Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
Reply by ●February 28, 20072007-02-28
"Uwe Bonnes" <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in message news:es0ue8$9g5$1@lnx107.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de...> "Steve Knapp (Xilinx Spartan-3 Generation FPGAs)" <steve.knapp@xilinx.com> > wrote: > ... >> Hi Uwe, > >> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I've passed this on to our >> distribution manager and he's working to remedy the situation. Both >> the XC3S400 and the XC3S500E FPGAs are most definitely available. The >> working theory is that the PQ208 package option is not the highest >> running product combinations. Consequently, our distributors aren't >> stocking them. I fully understand the attraction of the QFP package, >> however. > > As explained in the XC3SAN thread, the availability of big PQ208 parts may > not lead itself to big demand on the "many-pin" PQ parts. But the ease of > prototyping may lead to more design wins and so for demand for > "not-so-many" PQ and for BGA parts... > > -- > Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de >Hi Uwe, I think this is one of those few times where I'm tending to disagree with you. IMHO, the SI properties of the PQ208 package are so terrible that any prototype made using a PQ208 containing a die capable of sub-ns rise times is not going to accurately reflect what would happen when you build it with a decent FBGA package. Sure the internal logic will work ok, but that's what simulators are good at. It might be time to bite the bullet and invest in a toaster oven! I know Philip posted not too long ago about his set up, perhaps it might be of interest to you. The other choice that I can think of is to use an interposer to connect the FPGA to the board. I read recently about magic elastomer materials to connect BGA to PCBs with excellent SI properties. Best regards, Syms.
Reply by ●February 28, 20072007-02-28
Symon wrote:> The other choice that I can think of is to use an interposer to connect the > FPGA to the board. I read recently about magic elastomer materials to > connect BGA to PCBs with excellent SI properties.Is that the Samtec stuff? Wasn't in their catalog last time I looked.
Reply by ●February 28, 20072007-02-28
"Tim" <tim@nooospam.roockyloogic.com> wrote in message news:es4a0k$f0t$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...> Symon wrote: > >> The other choice that I can think of is to use an interposer to connect >> the FPGA to the board. I read recently about magic elastomer materials to >> connect BGA to PCBs with excellent SI properties. > > Is that the Samtec stuff? Wasn't in their catalog last time I looked.Hi Tim, I've looked for that after Teraspeed referenced it in an article and, like you, not found it yet. I was looking at something else the other day that had an elastomer with tiny wires in it like this:- | | | | | | | | | O O O O O O O O O | | | | | | | | | O O O O O O O O O | | | | | | | | | O O O O O O O O O | | | | | | | | | So, vertical lumpy wires. When you used it the wires deformed :- / / / / / / / / O O O O O O O O \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ O O O O O O O O / / / / / / / / O O O O O O O O \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ A bit more higgledy-piggley than that! Each PCB pad/ BGA ball used several of these wires to make the contact, like a zebra strip in LCD connectors. Sadly, I can't remember the link. Anyone else see it? Cheers, Syms.
Reply by ●February 28, 20072007-02-28
Symon wrote:> I've looked for that after Teraspeed referenced it in an article and, like > you, not found it yet. I was looking at something else the other day that > had an elastomer with tiny wires in it <<snipped>>I'm pretty sure that general design has been around for 10+ years, and my memory is that Samtec had an unsuccessful crack at productizing it some time ago. It's about time they tried again! -- Tim
Reply by ●March 1, 20072007-03-01
On Feb 27, 9:15 pm, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:> > I got a quote for a small quantity XC3S400-5PQ208C from Avnet a while > ago and they said the devices could be delivered from stock... >Good to know !! I'll forward this to the purchasing deparment. I'm afraid -5PQ208 is not ROHS compliant. (Not that it matters for in- house prototipes) Regards.
