hi folks ... when using the Cyclones with the EPCS4 flash configuration chip and active serial mode ... I'd like to use the extra memory space to store a memory image ... so all I need to do is read or write it in a big block .. so yes i have done this with Nios but this is too much overhead in a small cyclone device simply to copy an image from the flash to an external ram .. anyone know how to read the flash without using nios ? kb
Altera Active Serial
Started by ●January 23, 2004
Reply by ●January 24, 20042004-01-24
Khim Bittle wrote:> hi folks ... when using the Cyclones with the EPCS4 flash > configuration chip and active serial mode ... I'd like to use the > extra memory space to store a memory image ... so all I need to do is > read or write it in a big block .. so yes i have done this with Nios > but this is too much overhead in a small cyclone device simply to copy > an image from the flash to an external ram .. anyone know how to read > the flash without using nios ? kb > >Hi Khim, As I understand things, the Altera flash memory devices are based upon standard serial flash devices (ST microelectronics ?). Hence you would program these devices as you would any normal serial memory device. You only have yo be careful that you do not overwrite your configuration data. The Altera Cyclone data sheets have the relevant information you are looking, including the memory maps of the configuration and user spaces. Ben
Reply by ●January 29, 20042004-01-29
Ben Popoola <b.popoola@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<wBoQb.11$WQ3.10@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...> Khim Bittle wrote: > > hi folks ... when using the Cyclones with the EPCS4 flash > > configuration chip and active serial mode ... I'd like to use the > > extra memory space to store a memory image ... so all I need to do is > > read or write it in a big block .. so yes i have done this with Nios > > but this is too much overhead in a small cyclone device simply to copy > > an image from the flash to an external ram .. anyone know how to read > > the flash without using nios ? kb > > > Hi Khim, > As I understand things, the Altera flash memory devices are based upon > standard serial flash devices (ST microelectronics ?). Hence you would > program these devices as you would any normal serial memory device. You > only have yo be careful that you do not overwrite your configuration data.EPCS1 == M25P10 EPCS4 == M25P40 standard serial flash from www.st.com altera is only ordering them them with custom lables printed :) the problem accessing the config memory from non-nios applications is that quartus doesnt allow assignments to pins DATA0 and DCLK so it is not possible to access the config flash memory. there must be some internal trick that altera software uses but this seems to be "Altera undocumented" Antti Lukats xilin.openchip.org
Reply by ●January 29, 20042004-01-29
> > Hi Khim, > > As I understand things, the Altera flash memory devices are based upon > > standard serial flash devices (ST microelectronics ?). Hence you would > > program these devices as you would any normal serial memory device. You > > only have yo be careful that you do not overwrite your configurationdata.> > EPCS1 == M25P10 > EPCS4 == M25P40 > > standard serial flash from www.st.com > altera is only ordering them them with custom lables printed :)Antti, any idea what the relative cost of the ST part is? Altera say they've developed the AS devices for low cost configuration, but low quantity prices for the EPCS4 in the UK are �8 ish, not what I'd call cheap. Nial Stewart ------------------------------------------------ Nial Stewart Developments Ltd FPGA and High Speed Digital Design www.nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk
Reply by ●January 29, 20042004-01-29
"Nial Stewart" <nial@nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk> wrote in message news:40194a7e$0$18492$fa0fcedb@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...> > > Hi Khim, > > > As I understand things, the Altera flash memory devices are based upon > > > standard serial flash devices (ST microelectronics ?). Hence youwould> > > program these devices as you would any normal serial memory device.You> > > only have yo be careful that you do not overwrite your configuration > data. > > > > EPCS1 == M25P10 > > EPCS4 == M25P40 > > > > standard serial flash from www.st.com > > altera is only ordering them them with custom lables printed :) > > > Antti, any idea what the relative cost of the ST part is? > > Altera say they've developed the AS devices for low cost > configuration, but low quantity prices for the EPCS4 in the > UK are �8 ish, not what I'd call cheap.OK, so I got off my own arse and looked up the prices. DigikeyUK list them at �2.93 one off, down to �1.44 for 1000, they're probably cheaper in the States. Time to spend a bit of time perusing data sheets I think. Writing Altera's logo on them must be expensive :-( Nial ------------------------------------------------ Nial Stewart Developments Ltd FPGA and High Speed Digital Design www.nialstewartdevelopments.co.uk
Reply by ●January 29, 20042004-01-29
On 28 Jan 2004 23:43:35 -0800, antti@case2000.com (Antti Lukats) wrote:>Ben Popoola <b.popoola@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<wBoQb.11$WQ3.10@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>... >> Khim Bittle wrote: >> > hi folks ... when using the Cyclones with the EPCS4 flash >> > configuration chip and active serial mode ... I'd like to use the >> > extra memory space to store a memory image ... so all I need to do is >> > read or write it in a big block .. so yes i have done this with Nios >> > but this is too much overhead in a small cyclone device simply to copy >> > an image from the flash to an external ram .. anyone know how to read >> > the flash without using nios ? kb >> > >> Hi Khim, >> As I understand things, the Altera flash memory devices are based upon >> standard serial flash devices (ST microelectronics ?). Hence you would >> program these devices as you would any normal serial memory device. You >> only have yo be careful that you do not overwrite your configuration data. > >EPCS1 == M25P10 >EPCS4 == M25P40 > >standard serial flash from www.st.com >altera is only ordering them them with custom lables printed :) > >the problem accessing the config memory from non-nios applications is that >quartus doesnt allow assignments to pins DATA0 and DCLK so it is not >possible to access the config flash memory. >thanks for the response , you are correct , the problem is not how the memory chips work but how to manipulate dclk/data0 without nios ... ( i don't think quartus will let me at them ?) ... i haven't given up yet .. KB
Reply by ●January 30, 20042004-01-30
khimREMOVEbittle@cliftonREMOVEsystems.com (Khim Bittle) wrote in message> >> Khim Bittle wrote: > >> > hi folks ... when using the Cyclones with the EPCS4 flash > >> > configuration chip and active serial mode ... I'd like to use the > >> > extra memory space to store a memory image ... so all I need to do is[snip]> thanks for the response , you are correct , the problem is not how the > memory chips work but how to manipulate dclk/data0 without nios ... ( > i don't think quartus will let me at them ?) ... i haven't given up > yet .. KBhttp://wiki.openchip.org/index.php/ASMI instantiating ASMI Block from VHDL code :) Antti xilinx.openchip.org
Reply by ●January 31, 20042004-01-31
Khim Bittle wrote:> thanks for the response , you are correct , the problem is not how the > memory chips work but how to manipulate dclk/data0 without nios ... ( > i don't think quartus will let me at them ?) ... i haven't given up > yet .. KB > >If you have a pre-made board then I can see how this can be a problem. However if you are developing a custom board it is not two difficult to multiplex the dclk/data0 pins with user I/O pins to have full control over the serial memory devices.
Reply by ●January 31, 20042004-01-31
Ben Popoola <b.popoola@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<bvftk5$s0mpb$1@ID-207836.news.uni-berlin.de>...> Khim Bittle wrote: > > > thanks for the response , you are correct , the problem is not how the > > memory chips work but how to manipulate dclk/data0 without nios ... ( > > i don't think quartus will let me at them ?) ... i haven't given up > > yet .. KB > > If you have a pre-made board then I can see how this can be a problem. > However if you are developing a custom board it is not two difficult to > multiplex the dclk/data0 pins with user I/O pins to have full control > over the serial memory devices.Ben there is no need to modify the board, see my posting a special cyclone primitive "amsiblock" can be instantiated and that gives full control as needed to read write the config memory. no separate wiring needed Antti
Reply by ●January 31, 20042004-01-31
Antti Lukats wrote:> Ben Popoola <b.popoola@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<bvftk5$s0mpb$1@ID-207836.news.uni-berlin.de>... > >>Khim Bittle wrote: >> >> >>>thanks for the response , you are correct , the problem is not how the >>>memory chips work but how to manipulate dclk/data0 without nios ... ( >>>i don't think quartus will let me at them ?) ... i haven't given up >>>yet .. KB >> >>If you have a pre-made board then I can see how this can be a problem. >>However if you are developing a custom board it is not two difficult to >>multiplex the dclk/data0 pins with user I/O pins to have full control >>over the serial memory devices. > > > Ben there is no need to modify the board, see my posting a special > cyclone primitive "amsiblock" can be instantiated and that gives > full control as needed to read write the config memory. no separate > wiring needed > > AnttiI have now seen your posting and you are right. However, how widely available is this information? Ben
