Altera or Xilinx

Hi all,

For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
question is: Altera or Xilinx?

At least, it is my impression that those two are the major fpga
companies today. Or did I mis something?

I have searched this group and have called distributors for both, but 
there seems te be not much difference between them. Not in devices, 
EV-kits, free tools or price of the payed tools.

Searching this group with google (starting from 2006-01-01 as I think
much older information will be outdated by now) I found only found 87
messages containing both Altera and Xilinx. Most of those are in a
thread that starts it's focus on Nios vs Microblaze and than soon
derails unfortunately.

The some meaningless statistics:
Searching for Altera or Xilinx alone, also from 2006-01-01 to 2007-07-24:
Altera :  2140
Xilinx : 11200
Searching older messages gives simular results.

My previous experience with FPGA is rather old (+10 jears) and was with
Actel and Quicklogic. Both seem to still be around, but seem far less in
use than Xilinx or Altera. My latest experience with programmable logic
is with a Xilinx CPLD (XC2C128), 2 1/2 jears ago.

Although I'm trying to find the "best" choice for not only this project,
but also for future projects, I will give some info on the current
project.

The designs needs a serial bus with automatic module enumeration (2 - 12
changeable modules, not hotplug), access control (master slave probably),
buffers at each module (< 1kB), fixed timing, 10 - 40 Mbs. The master
module will need aditional buffering, ethernet and a processsor (probably
next to the fpga, not inside, but who knows). Slaves may or may not
require a (simple) processor. And in future there may be a need for
digital signal filters in some new slaves, but that could also be
implemented in a DSP.

My guess is that if it wasn't for the buffers, it could probably fit
inside a CPLD.

Any insights in what is the best FPGA for this (and other) application?
What is the major difference, are the differences, between Altera and
Xilinx?


-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

For low-end projects that need things like ethernet or other high-end macros 
I would look at Lattice.  I haven't had the opportunity to use any of their 
hardware or software but it seems that they offer more to lower-end customers.


---Matthew Hicks


> Hi all,
> 
> For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
> question is: Altera or Xilinx?
> 
> At least, it is my impression that those two are the major fpga
> companies today. Or did I mis something?
> 
> I have searched this group and have called distributors for both, but
> there seems te be not much difference between them. Not in devices,
> EV-kits, free tools or price of the payed tools.
> 
> Searching this group with google (starting from 2006-01-01 as I think
> much older information will be outdated by now) I found only found 87
> messages containing both Altera and Xilinx. Most of those are in a
> thread that starts it's focus on Nios vs Microblaze and than soon
> derails unfortunately.
> 
> The some meaningless statistics:
> Searching for Altera or Xilinx alone, also from 2006-01-01 to
> 2007-07-24:
> Altera :  2140
> Xilinx : 11200
> Searching older messages gives simular results.
> My previous experience with FPGA is rather old (+10 jears) and was
> with Actel and Quicklogic. Both seem to still be around, but seem far
> less in use than Xilinx or Altera. My latest experience with
> programmable logic is with a Xilinx CPLD (XC2C128), 2 1/2 jears ago.
> 
> Although I'm trying to find the "best" choice for not only this
> project, but also for future projects, I will give some info on the
> current project.
> 
> The designs needs a serial bus with automatic module enumeration (2 -
> 12 changeable modules, not hotplug), access control (master slave
> probably), buffers at each module (< 1kB), fixed timing, 10 - 40 Mbs.
> The master module will need aditional buffering, ethernet and a
> processsor (probably next to the fpga, not inside, but who knows).
> Slaves may or may not require a (simple) processor. And in future
> there may be a need for digital signal filters in some new slaves, but
> that could also be implemented in a DSP.
> 
> My guess is that if it wasn't for the buffers, it could probably fit
> inside a CPLD.
> 
> Any insights in what is the best FPGA for this (and other)
> application? What is the major difference, are the differences,
> between Altera and Xilinx?
> 

In comp.arch.fpga,
Matthew Hicks <mdhicks2@uiuc.edu> wrote:
> For low-end projects that need things like ethernet or other high-end macros 
> I would look at Lattice.  I haven't had the opportunity to use any of their 
> hardware or software but it seems that they offer more to lower-end customers.

Lattice! How could I forget? Used their CPLDs (isp1032?) some ten years ago.
It indeed looks like they have some nice devices and tools seem comparable
although the free version is only for evaluation (no sim?). Payed tools seem
a bit cheaper than actel/xilinx though.

Any experiences with device and tools here?

-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

Stef wrote:
> For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
> question is: Altera or Xilinx?
> At least, it is my impression that those two are the major fpga
> companies today. Or did I mis something?

No, those are the two big fish.  There are other smaller FPGA vendors
such as Lattice and Actel.

> I have searched this group and have called distributors for both, but 
> there seems te be not much difference between them. Not in devices, 
> EV-kits, free tools or price of the payed tools.

How long is a piece of string?  Should I buy Intel or AMD processors?
A GM, Ford, or Toyota car?  At the end of the day, it doesn't matter which
you use as long as it gets the job done and is cost effective.

If you really think that all else is equal, decide on the basis of
price.  It seems unlikely that there is no difference in price between
the smallest devices that meet your requirements.

Eric

Stef wrote:

> Any insights in what is the best FPGA for this (and other) application?
> What is the major difference, are the differences, between Altera and
> Xilinx?

If your local distributors are really equivalent,
then the only significant difference
to me is vhdl synthesis.

I prefer Rob Dekker's vhdl front end
to brand X. The numeric_std library
also gets better coverage in the docs
and the rtl viewer is cleaner.

However,
if I preferred verilog,
or synopsys style vhdl,
or if I just wanted to
wire up some cores,
then it would still be a wash.

      -- Mike Treseler

Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
>question is: Altera or Xilinx?
>
>The designs needs a serial bus with automatic module enumeration (2 - 12
>changeable modules, not hotplug), access control (master slave probably),
>buffers at each module (< 1kB), fixed timing, 10 - 40 Mbs. The master
>module will need aditional buffering, ethernet and a processsor (probably
>next to the fpga, not inside, but who knows). Slaves may or may not
>require a (simple) processor. And in future there may be a need for
>digital signal filters in some new slaves, but that could also be
>implemented in a DSP.
>
>My guess is that if it wasn't for the buffers, it could probably fit
>inside a CPLD.
>
>Any insights in what is the best FPGA for this (and other) application?
>What is the major difference, are the differences, between Altera and
>Xilinx?

I'm under the impression that Altera parts are much easier to obtain
in small quantities. Most 'hobbiest' projects seem to use Altera
parts. Every time I buy Xilinx parts, I'll have to meet minimum order
values so sometimes I must buy more devices than I actually need.

Also if you really want to push an FPGA to its limits (space/speed) it
is almost impossible to write FPGA independant code. So whatever you
choose, you'll probably get stuck to it because changing vendors will
require re-learning the quirks, tricks and basic fpga elements.

-- 
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Nico Coesel wrote:

> if you really want to push an FPGA to its limits (space/speed) it
> is almost impossible to write FPGA independant code. So whatever you
> choose, you'll probably get stuck to it because changing vendors will
> require re-learning the quirks, tricks and basic fpga elements.

On the other side of the coin,
it is easy to write FPGA independent code if
I'm not near the limits and I study
the synthesis templates and learn some verilog or vhdl.

          -- Mike Treseler

On Jul 25, 4:11 am, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:
> Stef <stef...@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> wrote:
> >Hi all,
>
> >For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
> >question is: Altera or Xilinx?
>
> >The designs needs a serial bus with automatic module enumeration (2 - 12
> >changeable modules, not hotplug), access control (master slave probably),
> >buffers at each module (< 1kB), fixed timing, 10 - 40 Mbs. The master
> >module will need aditional buffering, ethernet and a processsor (probably
> >next to the fpga, not inside, but who knows). Slaves may or may not
> >require a (simple) processor. And in future there may be a need for
> >digital signal filters in some new slaves, but that could also be
> >implemented in a DSP.
>
> >My guess is that if it wasn't for the buffers, it could probably fit
> >inside a CPLD.
>
> >Any insights in what is the best FPGA for this (and other) application?
> >What is the major difference, are the differences, between Altera and
> >Xilinx?
>
> I'm under the impression that Altera parts are much easier to obtain
> in small quantities. Most 'hobbiest' projects seem to use Altera
> parts. Every time I buy Xilinx parts, I'll have to meet minimum order
> values so sometimes I must buy more devices than I actually need.
>
> Also if you really want to push an FPGA to its limits (space/speed) it
> is almost impossible to write FPGA independant code. So whatever you
> choose, you'll probably get stuck to it because changing vendors will
> require re-learning the quirks, tricks and basic fpga elements.
>
> --
> Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
> Bedrijven en winkels vindt U opwww.adresboekje.nl

I've bought small quantities of Xilinx parts from DigiKey.
-Dave Pollum

Stef <stef33d@yahooi-n-v-a-l-i-d.com.invalid> wrote:
>Hi all,

>For a new project we will need an FPGA and need to select one, so the
>question is: Altera or Xilinx?

Xilinx (and Actel?) have free linux version of their programming tool.
Which Altera doesn't.

pbFJKD@ludd.invalid writes:

> Xilinx (and Actel?) have free linux version of their programming tool.
> Which Altera doesn't.

You can download the Altera Quartus II Programmer for free.

Petter
-- 
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