DDR/DDR2 controller - core

Hi

I want to use in my project (with Spartan3 or Cyclone2) a DDR/DDR2 DIMM
module. I have chosen DDR because is avaiable and cheaper than SDR. 
I have no experience with memory controllers and not to big with FPGA,
that's why I don't know which design solution to choose.
I don't need fast data rate (least possible is enough to me)

I have considered MegaCore function from Altera or solution provide by
Xilinx

After I read documentation to DDR/DDR2 interface core provide by Xilinx I
have impression that they do it only to prove that it's possible to
interface DDR with their fpgas, but they give no guarantee it will by
works. Am I wrong?
And MIG don't support DIMMs for Spartan3.

When I compiled a DDR2 controler from MegaCore it take 3000LE. It's quite a
lot.

I consider too make my own DDR/DDR2 controller. I have read DDR2
specification and it seems complicated. But maybe if I make it for
particular DDR2 module it will be more easier and take less LE or LUTs.

Have anyone experience with solution that I mentioned?
Or maybe someone may suggest me another solution?
Any help is appreciated.

PGW

On Aug 10, 2:37 am, pgw <"SwietyMikolaj["@]poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I want to use in my project (with Spartan3 or Cyclone2) a DDR/DDR2 DIMM
> module. I have chosen DDR because is avaiable and cheaper than SDR.
> I have no experience with memory controllers and not to big with FPGA,
> that's why I don't know which design solution to choose.
> I don't need fast data rate (least possible is enough to me)
>
> I have considered MegaCore function from Altera or solution provide by
> Xilinx
>
> After I read documentation to DDR/DDR2 interface core provide by Xilinx I
> have impression that they do it only to prove that it's possible to
> interface DDR with their fpgas, but they give no guarantee it will by
> works. Am I wrong?
> And MIG don't support DIMMs for Spartan3.
>
> When I compiled a DDR2 controler from MegaCore it take 3000LE. It's quite a
> lot.
>
> I consider too make my own DDR/DDR2 controller. I have read DDR2
> specification and it seems complicated. But maybe if I make it for
> particular DDR2 module it will be more easier and take less LE or LUTs.
>
> Have anyone experience with solution that I mentioned?
> Or maybe someone may suggest me another solution?
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> PGW

You might want to check out Lattice's XP2 family.  Has built-in flash
that
stores the FPGA configuration which eases design and gives a single-
chip,
instant-on approach.

Has advanced registering in IO cell to take care of all of the DDR-
>SDR data
path stuff as well as dedicated logic for DQS delay.  Lowers LUT count
and eases
timing - run up to 400Mbps.  With 64 bit DRAM interface uses about 2K
LUT's
(with default values).  IPExpress tool provides similar function to
Megacore.

dimtsios@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> 
> You might want to check out Lattice's XP2 family.  Has built-in flash
> that
> stores the FPGA configuration which eases design and gives a single-
> chip,
> instant-on approach.
> 
> Has advanced registering in IO cell to take care of all of the DDR-
> SDR data
> path stuff as well as dedicated logic for DQS delay.  Lowers LUT count
> and eases
> timing - run up to 400Mbps.  With 64 bit DRAM interface uses about 2K
> LUT's
> (with default values).  IPExpress tool provides similar function to
> Megacore.

I only forgot to mention that im a student and this is an academic project.
:)
Also I am looking only free solution or these that I can test before
purchase like Megacore.

PGW

pgw <"SwietyMikolaj["@]poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I want to use in my project (with Spartan3 or Cyclone2) a DDR/DDR2 DIMM
>module. I have chosen DDR because is avaiable and cheaper than SDR. 
>I have no experience with memory controllers and not to big with FPGA,
>that's why I don't know which design solution to choose.
>I don't need fast data rate (least possible is enough to me)
>
>I have considered MegaCore function from Altera or solution provide by
>Xilinx
>
>After I read documentation to DDR/DDR2 interface core provide by Xilinx I
>have impression that they do it only to prove that it's possible to
>interface DDR with their fpgas, but they give no guarantee it will by
>works. Am I wrong?

No. There is no free usefull DDR core.

>And MIG don't support DIMMs for Spartan3.

Precisely. Besides the Spartan 3 DDR controller made by the MIG tool
is huge and hopeless. You'll have to be carefull though with
connecting too many datalines to a Spartan 3. The power consumption of
the IO is huge for driving DDR memory. You'll need an FPGA in a BGA
package if you want to connect a DIMM.

>I consider too make my own DDR/DDR2 controller. I have read DDR2
>specification and it seems complicated. But maybe if I make it for
>particular DDR2 module it will be more easier and take less LE or LUTs.
>
>Have anyone experience with solution that I mentioned?
>Or maybe someone may suggest me another solution?
>Any help is appreciated.

Designing a controller is not so difficult if you are after
writing/reading bursts of data. A small hint: the DDR controller can
be clocked at half the DDR clock frequency.

-- 
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

Nico Coesel wrote:

> You'll have to be carefull though with
> connecting too many datalines to a Spartan 3. The power consumption of
> the IO is huge for driving DDR memory. You'll need an FPGA in a BGA
> package if you want to connect a DIMM.

Even if data rate will by small?
I have not consider this aspect before, thanks for advice.
 
> Designing a controller is not so difficult if you are after
> writing/reading bursts of data. 

I am not sure I understand this sentence: "if you are after
writing/reading bursts of data" 
What you mean?

PGW

pgw <"SwietyMikolaj["@]poczta.onet.pl> wrote:

>Nico Coesel wrote:
>
>> You'll have to be carefull though with
>> connecting too many datalines to a Spartan 3. The power consumption of
>> the IO is huge for driving DDR memory. You'll need an FPGA in a BGA
>> package if you want to connect a DIMM.
>
>Even if data rate will by small?
>I have not consider this aspect before, thanks for advice.

SDRAM, DDR and DDR2 have a minimum clock frequency. This means the
datarate cannot be choosen very small.
 
>> Designing a controller is not so difficult if you are after
>> writing/reading bursts of data. 
>
>I am not sure I understand this sentence: "if you are after
>writing/reading bursts of data" 
>What you mean?

Designing a memory controller which transfers large blocks of data is
much easier (the addresslines are driven by a counter) than a
random-access memory controller (address lines need to be translated,
transactions must be queued).

-- 
Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl

On Aug 10, 10:37 am, pgw <"SwietyMikolaj["@]poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I want to use in my project (with Spartan3 or Cyclone2) a DDR/DDR2 DIMM
> module. I have chosen DDR because is avaiable and cheaper than SDR.
> I have no experience with memory controllers and not to big with FPGA,
> that's why I don't know which design solution to choose.
> I don't need fast data rate (least possible is enough to me)
>
As DDR /DDR2 is a pipelined burst memory then you have to be aware of
the effect of this on your design.
Depending on your data source, you may need another controller to
packetise the data into appropriate bursts.

If you have a low data throughput requirement, then it might be
easiest to do this in a FPGA based micro core.
Certainly Xilinx has DDR 1/2 controllers available that plug onto
their micro cores.
This would be less error prone than hacking around with a MIG design,
unless producing a controller is the main part of your academic
project.

Can you tell us any more details about your applciation?

Andrew Burnside wrote:

> Certainly Xilinx has DDR 1/2 controllers available that plug onto
> their micro cores.

I can not find them, are you sure?

> This would be less error prone than hacking around with a MIG design,
> unless producing a controller is the main part of your academic
> project.
> 
> Can you tell us any more details about your applciation?

DDR1/2 is not the main part of this project.
In my project I want to be able to read two data word (64bits each) form
one place in memory and two words from oder place. And similarly at
writing. Also with DDR I can use burst 2.
Actually a word has 48 bits but I can sacrifice 1/4 of memory to make it
easier.
And I can use only Spartan3 or Cyclone2 because in oder case using DDR will
be not profitable.

PGW

On Aug 13, 7:37 pm, pgw <"SwietyMikolaj["@]poczta.onet.pl> wrote:
> AndrewBurnsidewrote:
> > Certainly Xilinx has DDR 1/2 controllers available that plug onto
> > their micro cores.
>
> I can not find them, are you sure?
>
> > This would be less error prone than hacking around with a MIG design,
> > unless producing a controller is the main part of your academic
> > project.
>
>From the IP section of the Xilinx website:
Multi Channel OPB DDR2 Controller
The Xilinx Multi-Channel On-chip Peripheral Bus Double Data Rate
Synchronous DRAM (MCH OPB DDR2 SDRAM) controller for Xilinx FPGAs
provides a DDR2 SDRAM controller that connects to the OPB and multiple
channel interfaces and provides the control interface for DDR2 SDRAMs.
It is assumed that the reader is familiar with DDR2 SDRAM and the MCH
protocol.

DRAM is tricky because of the multiplexed row/column addresses, and the
need to consider device refresh.

DDR is tricky because of the need to output and acquire data on both edges
of the clock.

Use old-fashioned SRAM if at all possible. Unless you are an 'intellectual
masochist' with a lot of spare time...