JTAG interconnect testing, prototypes

Hi,
I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially 
for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what other 
people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your debugging 
experiences are?

I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect testing 
and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is JSCAN from 
Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in 
SVF looks like it could be good.

Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
* Amontec JTAGkey?
* the Lattice tools - ispVM?

Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides 
X-ray:) )?

Thanks & cheers,
Tony Burch

On Oct 7, 5:43 pm, "Tony Burch" <t...@burched.com.au> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what other
> people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your debugging
> experiences are?
>
> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect testing
> and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is JSCAN from
> Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in
> SVF looks like it could be good.
>
> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
>
> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides
> X-ray:) )?
>
> Thanks & cheers,
> Tony Burch

Hey Tony,

The biggest issue with interconnect issues is developing the vectors.
Getting the vectors to the JTAG controller is small by comparison.

Just about any JTAG device -should- work just fine.  I've bit-banged
JTAG, and used high-end dedicated controllers.

The Amontec could be a good choice.  It runs at 12Mbps max, which
should be OK for most applications.  It uses a real common chip; the
value add is the support, which seems to be much better than average.

Near as I can tell, all the high-end JTAG systems add are the ability
to import scan files, and nifty GUIs.

Just my opinions,
G.

"Tony Burch" <tony@burched.com.au> wrote in message 
news:47097d29$0$18984$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially 
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what 
> other people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your 
> debugging experiences are?
>
> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect 
> testing and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is 
> JSCAN from Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script 
> recorder stores in SVF looks like it could be good.
>
> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
>
> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides 
> X-ray:) )?
>
> Thanks & cheers,
> Tony Burch
>
>

Tony,

I've used Corelis for many years. Their latest toolset works really well in 
providing coverage and fault analysis. Their support is very good, too.

They also have standard test suites for RAMs that are hooked up to FPGAs, 
but be sure you drive the clock from the FPGA if you want this feature to 
work. Their latest stuff works for ac couple paths as long as the boundary 
scan cell supports this feature.

Talk to Karla May. She knows her stuff.

Bob

Tony,

The other great low-cost tool for JTAG Boundary Scan interconnect 
testing is the
Universal Scan tool from http://www.ricreations.com/index.html

JSCAN is a licensed version of the UniversalScan. UniversalScan looks 
like the Scanneer, but with much more feature as the possibility to 
remote SPI and parallel Flash upload via any JTAG pins, as the 
possibility to store SVF output format. Then the SVF can be replayed 
with the optimized amtsvfplayer ( Amontec SVF Player ) from 
http://www.amontec.com .

Both Scaneer and Universal Scan can be used with Amontec JTAGkey with a 
real good performance, but Universal Scan takes all the advantages of 
the optimized amtxhal.dll ( Amontec Hardware Abstraction Layer ) 
allowing to be much faster.

Laurent


  Burch wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially 
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what other 
> people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your debugging 
> experiences are?
> 
> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect testing 
> and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is JSCAN from 
> Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in 
> SVF looks like it could be good.
> 
> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
> 
> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides 
> X-ray:) )?
> 
> Thanks & cheers,
> Tony Burch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Corelis is a great tool for Interconnect testing, but I know that it
is expensive. But may be one time investement on this tool is a fair
deal because it saves you a whole lot of time in debugging opens and
shorts.

They have various test types -- for BGA's, memory (DIMMs, flash etc).
Apart from these, you can also write your own tests. For example if
you have a Clock Buffer connected to an FPGA and you want to program
it to enable and disable some outputs, then you can create a test
which basically writes to the registers to do the same. They also have
products where in you can program the EEPROM's through JTAG.

These are all what I used from Corelis and as Bob told their support
is also good.

-- parag


On Oct 8, 7:10 am, "Amontec, Larry" <laurent.ga...@ANTI-
SPAMamontec.com> wrote:
> Tony,
>
> The other great low-cost tool for JTAG Boundary Scan interconnect
> testing is the
> Universal Scan tool fromhttp://www.ricreations.com/index.html
>
> JSCAN is a licensed version of the UniversalScan. UniversalScan looks
> like the Scanneer, but with much more feature as the possibility to
> remote SPI and parallel Flash upload via any JTAG pins, as the
> possibility to store SVF output format. Then the SVF can be replayed
> with the optimized amtsvfplayer ( Amontec SVF Player ) fromhttp://www.amontec.com.
>
> Both Scaneer and Universal Scan can be used with Amontec JTAGkey with a
> real good performance, but Universal Scan takes all the advantages of
> the optimized amtxhal.dll ( Amontec Hardware Abstraction Layer )
> allowing to be much faster.
>
> Laurent
>
>
>
>   Burch wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially
> > for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what other
> > people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your debugging
> > experiences are?
>
> > I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect testing
> > and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is JSCAN from
> > Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in
> > SVF looks like it could be good.
>
> > Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> > * Amontec JTAGkey?
> > * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
>
> > Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides
> > X-ray:) )?
>
> > Thanks & cheers,
> > Tony Burch- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Oct 8, 6:48 pm, "beer...@gmail.com" <beer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Corelis is a great tool for Interconnect testing, but I know that it
> is expensive. But may be one time investement on this tool is a fair
> deal because it saves you a whole lot of time in debugging opens and
> shorts.
But comparing to Corelis the power of Scanseer or UniversalScan is
that you do not need to write any tests or prepare some test vectors.
All you need is a BSDL file and you are ready to go. You can just
select a pin on graphical view and monitor its value, or manipulate
with its value to test board interconnects.

On Oct 7, 7:43 pm, "Tony Burch" <t...@burched.com.au> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what other
> people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your debugging
> experiences are?
>
> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect testing
> and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is JSCAN from
> Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in
> SVF looks like it could be good.
>
> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
>
> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides
> X-ray:) )?
>
> Thanks & cheers,
> Tony Burch


I use onTAP by Flynn systems. See http://www.flynn.com/

I have been using it for about four or five years now and have always
been very happy with it.

We use it to generate the test vectors, and to run the test. To
generate the vectors, we give it the BSDL files for the chips, an EDIF
of the schematic. It then has a few GUI pages of set up to tell it
about pins that are pulled high or low, and nets that are shorted
through passives. After that, it generates the vectors and a coverage
report.

We use it with Xilinx FPGAs and the Xilinx parallel cable IV.

Regards,

John McCaskill
www.fastertechnology.com

On Oct 8, 3:10 pm, "Amontec, Larry" <laurent.ga...@ANTI-
SPAMamontec.com> wrote:
> Both Scaneer and Universal Scan can be used with Amontec JTAGkey with a
> real good performance, but Universal Scan takes all the advantages of
> the optimized amtxhal.dll ( Amontec Hardware Abstraction Layer )
> allowing to be much faster.
Larry, I do not agree to this point. Scanseer is much more faster
(performs more samples per second) then UniversalScan. It seems like
UniversalScan always makes about 10 samples per second independent of
what JTAG cable is connected. Scanseer performance depends on cable
type (and of course JTAG chain size). With Olimex USB cable based on
FTDI FT2232 (compatible to Amontec JTAG-Key) I received about 1000
samples per second for chain consisting of one Atmel ATmega device.
Scanseer also has a waveform viewer to record and display such fast
changing signals.

Tony Burch <tony@burched.com.au> wrote:
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially 
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know 
> what other people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and 
> what your debugging experiences are?

> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some 
> interconnect testing and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. 
> Another one out there is JSCAN from Macraigor Systems. 
>I have not used JSCAN. The test script recorder stores in 
> SVF looks like it could be good.

> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?

> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides 
> X-ray:) )?

On a similar subject:

Any JTAG test software that is available for Linux and windows?

Thanks
-- 
Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

Thanks Gary, Bob, Laurent, Parag, sk, & John for your comments. That is much 
appreciated.

Gary, thanks. Wow, it's cool that you have bit-banged JTAG and have 
obviously tackled interconnect testing before.

Thanks Bob for the Corelis recommendation. A friend of mine here in Sydney 
uses Corelis. Definitely the higher-end and powerful stuff. I couldn't find 
any prices on their site but I belive it's expensive, as Parag also 
mentioned.

Thanks Laurent, UniversalScan looks good. I didn't know that J-Scan was a 
licensed version of UniversalScan, but now that I look at their websites 
again I can see it. The possibility of storing SVF output format with that 
tool looks nice. I note from their website that the price of UniversalScan 
is US$845.

Also, Laurent, by the way I really like the look of JTAGkey. Very nice 
product. I will have to get myself one of those:)...but just at the moment I 
am pretty happy with my parallel port Xilinx, Altera & Lattice cables. I 
also like that JTAGkey works with Scanseer (I am a fan of Scanseer:) ) & and 
other JTAG software.

sk, that's interesting about Scanseer being faster than UniversalScan, in 
terms of samples per second. Definitely I love the waveform viewer in 
Scanseer. I also like that you can slow down the sample rate with Scanseer 
if you want to. I do that when I just need to look at DC levels (it still 
gives me some indication that the clock and other signals are toggling). A 
few samples per second is good enough for that, but the higher sample rate 
is essential for other tests.

Scanseer's price is Euro$150, which is less than US$220. Great value.

Thanks John for the onTAP Flynn Systems pointer. That does look good. I note 
from their website the price starts at about $2,895.

Just to expand the list a little, I have also looked at the websites for:
xjtag
acculogic
intellitech
jtag technologies

Guys, I am writing an ebook & videos on low-cost JTAG interconnect testing. 
This is a resource for those that want to do simple interconnect testing on 
a prototype board (with BGAs etc.), but can't justify spending much on tools 
or time.

For example, for a small company, freelance designer, or hobbyist that does 
not do alot of development and has a limited budget. I guess there aren't 
alot of hobbyists buying Corelis:)

I have some valuable tips, tricks and techniques that I have found and 
developed that I would like to offer. If there's anything that you would 
like to see in an ebook like this, please drop me a line. I would really 
apprecate it.

I will release the ebook & videos soon at http://www.TestBGAsoldering.com

Thanks & cheers,

Tony Burch

"Tony Burch" <tony@burched.com.au> wrote in message 
news:47097d29$0$18984$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hi,
> I am looking at various alternatives for interconnect testing, especially 
> for prototype boards that have BGAs. I am very interested to know what 
> other people are using for JTAG interconnect testing, and what your 
> debugging experiences are?
>
> I have Scanseer, and I like it very much. I can do some interconnect 
> testing and real-time monitoring with Scanseer. Another one out there is 
> JSCAN from Macraigor Systems. I have not used JSCAN. The test script 
> recorder stores in SVF looks like it could be good.
>
> Does anyone do prototype interconnect testing with:
> * Amontec JTAGkey?
> * the Lattice tools - ispVM?
>
> Any other suggestions or experiences with interconnect testing (besides 
> X-ray:) )?
>
> Thanks & cheers,
> Tony Burch