Hello group, I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using 61v8. does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to complete this? Regards, amit
newbie to 16v8
Started by ●November 10, 2007
Reply by ●November 10, 20072007-11-10
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:25:35 -0000, Amit <amit.kohan@gmail.com> wrote:> >Hello group, > >I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is >designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I >need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using >61v8. > > >does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to >complete this?A GAL16V8, which I guess is what you mean, has only... - 8 bits of storage - 18 user I/O pins, of which one must be taken as a clock in most cases so your multiplier surely cannot be very big! You could make a multiplier with two 4-bit inputs and an 8-bit result... probably. If you have *lots* of 16V8s on a board, you could make a bigger multiplier. When I did a Google search for GAL16V8, the first hit I found was the Lattice data sheet. (I used to know those devices inside-out, but I haven't used one for so long that I thought I'd better remind myself of the details.) Not a bad place to start. -- Jonathan Bromley, Consultant DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com http://www.MYCOMPANY.com The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.
Reply by ●November 10, 20072007-11-10
On Nov 10, 10:49 am, Jonathan Bromley <jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:> On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:25:35 -0000, Amit <amit.ko...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello group, > > >I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is > >designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I > >need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using > >61v8. > > >does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to > >complete this? > > A GAL16V8, which I guess is what you mean, has only... > - 8 bits of storage > - 18 user I/O pins, of which one must be taken as a clock > in most cases > so your multiplier surely cannot be very big! You could make > a multiplier with two 4-bit inputs and an 8-bit result... > probably. If you have *lots* of 16V8s on a board, you > could make a bigger multiplier. > > When I did a Google search for GAL16V8, the first hit I found > was the Lattice data sheet. (I used to know those devices > inside-out, but I haven't used one for so long that I thought > I'd better remind myself of the details.) Not a bad place to start. > -- > Jonathan Bromley, Consultant > > DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how > VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services > > Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK > jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.comhttp://www.MYCOMPANY.com > > The contents of this message may contain personal views which > are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.Hello Jonathan, Thanks for your response. you are right, I did download it but one thing that I need to know how can I find a right flow? and associate it with a multiplier 4 by 4? it seems there are other controlling inputs such as Vcc (or maybe I'm wrong) but is there any example of an adder for instance? Once again thanks. amit
Reply by ●November 10, 20072007-11-10
On Nov 10, 11:00 am, Amit <amit.ko...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Nov 10, 10:49 am, Jonathan Bromley <jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.com> > wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:25:35 -0000, Amit <amit.ko...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >Hello group, > > > >I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is > > >designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I > > >need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using > > >61v8. > > > >does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to > > >complete this? > > > A GAL16V8, which I guess is what you mean, has only... > > - 8 bits of storage > > - 18 user I/O pins, of which one must be taken as a clock > > in most cases > > so your multiplier surely cannot be very big! You could make > > a multiplier with two 4-bit inputs and an 8-bit result... > > probably. If you have *lots* of 16V8s on a board, you > > could make a bigger multiplier. > > > When I did a Google search for GAL16V8, the first hit I found > > was the Lattice data sheet. (I used to know those devices > > inside-out, but I haven't used one for so long that I thought > > I'd better remind myself of the details.) Not a bad place to start. > > -- > > Jonathan Bromley, Consultant > > > DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how > > VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services > > > Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK > > jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.comhttp://www.MYCOMPANY.com >Amit, you will not fnd a multiplier, nor even an adder. The chip has lots of wide AND gates that can be ORed together, and that's the (very low) level of abstraction you should use to design. Back to basics (or is it forward to basics for you ?). Good exercise in logic design, and in logical thinking. Greetings to your teacher or prof. Peter Alfke> > The contents of this message may contain personal views which > > are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated. > > Hello Jonathan, > > Thanks for your response. you are right, I did download it but one > thing that I need to know how can I find a right flow? and associate > it with a multiplier 4 by 4? > it seems there are other controlling inputs such as Vcc (or maybe I'm > wrong) but is there any example of an adder for instance? > > Once again thanks. > amit
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
Amit wrote:> Hello group, > > I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is > designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I > need to implement a logical functionThat should be easy. Which logical function has your tutor asked for ? What examples has he given ?> and also design multiplier using 16v8.How many bits wide ? - did the tutor say ? One obvious ceiling is you only have 8 outputs, but there are other lower ones. One simple Multipler expression is a ROM, and a 2b x 2b multipler, can fit in a 16x4 ROM - and that will likely fit into a 16V8. The 22V10 will fit a larger multiplier. -jg
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
"Amit" <amit.kohan@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1194719135.535112.238400@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> > Hello group, > > I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is > designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I > need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using > 61v8. > > > does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to > complete this? > > Regards, > amit >Your best starting point would be to ask your tutor why he thinks you need to work with a technology that nobody has used for at least ten years. You might be able to catch him after his lecture on valves (vacuum tubes) and germanium transistors.
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
David Spencer wrote:> "Amit" <amit.kohan@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1194719135.535112.238400@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > >>Hello group, >> >>I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is >>designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I >>need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using >>61v8. >> >> >>does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to >>complete this? >> >>Regards, >>amit >> > > > Your best starting point would be to ask your tutor why he thinks you need > to work with a technology that nobody has used for at least ten years. You > might be able to catch him after his lecture on valves (vacuum tubes) and > germanium transistors.Quite a few introductory courses are taught using a SPLD/CPLD - after all, AND/OR/XOR Logic and D-FF have not changed :) The student learns using Boolean equation entry, which teaches them how the logic actually maps, and is also a common language in report files. The devices come in DIP packages, and can also be easily vector tested on device programmers, which brings the silicon inside the design loop. The 16V8 may not be seen much in new designs, but it is still active in production [ We still buy ATF16V8BQL for production :) ] and the modern 32 macrocell CPLD's are a pretty easy step from the 16V8. Some courses could include both -depends on the hours allocated. -jg
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
"David Spencer" <davidmspencer@verizon.net> wrote:> >"Amit" <amit.kohan@gmail.com> wrote in message >news:1194719135.535112.238400@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com... >> >> Hello group, >> >> I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is >> designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I >> need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using >> 61v8. >> >> >> does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to >> complete this? >> >> Regards, >> amit >> > >Your best starting point would be to ask your tutor why he thinks you need >to work with a technology that nobody has used for at least ten years. You >might be able to catch him after his lecture on valves (vacuum tubes) and >germanium transistors.Are you sure modern fpga's work differently? The latest processors still use the same base technology invented decades ago. I've learned how processors / small computers work from books describing the 8080 while the 486 was readily available. The theory behind it however still holds true for today (and probably many tomorows). In fact, old technology is usually much simpler and easier to understand and the documentation contains a lot more background information which is held for granted nowadays. For instance try to find a datasheet from an EPROM which lists the wavelength it needs to get erased... I had to dig up a datasheet from 1982. -- Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
On Nov 11, 3:31 pm, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:> "David Spencer" <davidmspen...@verizon.net> wrote: > > >"Amit" <amit.ko...@gmail.com> wrote in message > >news:1194719135.535112.238400@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > >> Hello group, > > >> I'm new to this field and currently learning how 16v8 architecture is > >> designed. Of course, pretty confused but as my first experiement I > >> need to implement a logical function and also design multiplier using > >> 61v8. > > >> does anybody know where I can get some information to be able to > >> complete this? > > >> Regards, > >> amit > > >Your best starting point would be to ask your tutor why he thinks you need > >to work with a technology that nobody has used for at least ten years. You > >might be able to catch him after his lecture on valves (vacuum tubes) and > >germanium transistors. > > Are you sure modern fpga's work differently? The latest processors > still use the same base technology invented decades ago. I've learned > how processors / small computers work from books describing the 8080 > while the 486 was readily available. The theory behind it however > still holds true for today (and probably many tomorows). In fact, old > technology is usually much simpler and easier to understand and the > documentation contains a lot more background information which is held > for granted nowadays. For instance try to find a datasheet from an > EPROM which lists the wavelength it needs to get erased... I had to > dig up a datasheet from 1982. > > -- > Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) > Bedrijven en winkels vindt U opwww.adresboekje.nlThat goes for many things. On an old car you could adjust the breaker points and the carburator, on an old radio you could change the tubes, and on even a new bike you can still change the chain and the bowden wires, Good as a tutorial, but how much time do you want to spend there? Who needs to know the EPROM erasure wavelength of light when everybody is using Flash, and no light? On th other hand... I get annoyed when designers blindly think that chips can add, multiply, and perform a Fourier Transform, without any understanding or appreciation of the underlying physics. We need some balance... Peter Alfke
Reply by ●November 11, 20072007-11-11
"Peter Alfke" <alfke@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:1194826350.291056.94690@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...> Good as a tutorial, but how much time do you want to spend there? > Peter Alfke >That was the point I was trying to make. Whilst understanding the concept of implementing arbitrary logic functions using a sum of products architecture, I can see little point in making someone develop a design to go in an obsolescent part. Although most modern CPLDs still use sum-of-products architecture, it is very unlikely that you would ever need to code a design directly into such an architecture in this day and age. It would be akin to getting someone to program a processor directly in machine code, ignoring the perfectly good (and probably free) assembler that is available.
