my Spartan-4 wishlist

here it is:

1) devices densities like in Spartan-3 (50..5000)
2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
(microBGA 6x6 mm?)
3) all good features of S3A/AN !!
4) design security with OTP encryption key (like Lattice ECP2)
5) other features as already planned by Xilinx

Antti
has made his Christmas wish this year... or did I just describe
Lattice XP3 or Cyclone IV?
eh, I just wish Spartan-4 will have all the good things from Spartan-3
subfamilies+extra goodies.

Antti <Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> writes:
> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)

I keep wondering if there's a market for a few "unbalanced" devices,
like something with a ton of gates but in a tqfp-64 package.  Or BGA
packages that only use the two outer rows for signals, for simpler
board routing.

Likewise, I'd like to see the occasional MCU with a ton of ram and a
little flash, rather than the other way as it usually is.  Every once
in a while I need a smart buffer chip :-(

"Antti" <Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:467475ec-6d16-4789-acec-07d3c1a4977e@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> here it is:
>
> 1) devices densities like in Spartan-3 (50..5000)
> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)
> 3) all good features of S3A/AN !!
> 4) design security with OTP encryption key (like Lattice ECP2)
> 5) other features as already planned by Xilinx
>
> Antti
> has made his Christmas wish this year... or did I just describe
> Lattice XP3 or Cyclone IV?
> eh, I just wish Spartan-4 will have all the good things from Spartan-3
> subfamilies+extra goodies.
>
>
>

Hi Antti,

I've the same wishes, some additional i/O & memory cores would be nice:

6) USB2 host/slave interface with integrated PHY

7) Ethernet MAC + PHY

8) DDR2/3 core

9) some analog stuff (ADC, temp sensor, system supervisor)

S4 would be a serious competitor to 32bit microcontrollers, if some of their 
standard peripherals are included in low price FPGA's.

MIKE

On 3 Mrz., 22:16, DJ Delorie <d...@delorie.com> wrote:
> Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> writes:
> > 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
> > (microBGA 6x6 mm?)
>
> I keep wondering if there's a market for a few "unbalanced" devices,
> like something with a ton of gates but in a tqfp-64 package.  Or BGA
> packages that only use the two outer rows for signals, for simpler
> board routing.
>
> Likewise, I'd like to see the occasional MCU with a ton of ram and a
> little flash, rather than the other way as it usually is.  Every once
> in a while I need a smart buffer chip :-(

oh yes, TQFP48 0.5mm pitch FPGA running from single voltage!
defenetly, but hey thats wish for new Lattice device ;)

BTW, Actel QFN132 3 row QFN 0.5mm pitch CAN be used on
2 layer PCB or even single layer.

Antti

"M.Randelzhofer" <techseller@gmx.de> wrote:

>"Antti" <Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
>news:467475ec-6d16-4789-acec-07d3c1a4977e@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> here it is:
>>
>> 1) devices densities like in Spartan-3 (50..5000)
>> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
>> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)
>> 3) all good features of S3A/AN !!
>> 4) design security with OTP encryption key (like Lattice ECP2)
>> 5) other features as already planned by Xilinx
>>
>> Antti
>> has made his Christmas wish this year... or did I just describe
>> Lattice XP3 or Cyclone IV?
>> eh, I just wish Spartan-4 will have all the good things from Spartan-3
>> subfamilies+extra goodies.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hi Antti,
>
>I've the same wishes, some additional i/O & memory cores would be nice:
>
>6) USB2 host/slave interface with integrated PHY
>
>7) Ethernet MAC + PHY
>
>8) DDR2/3 core
>
>9) some analog stuff (ADC, temp sensor, system supervisor)
>
>S4 would be a serious competitor to 32bit microcontrollers, if some of their 
>standard peripherals are included in low price FPGA's.

You forget a standard ARM core, some internal flash (say 32KB to
256KB), some memory (8KB to 64KB) and some standard pheripherals like
UART, SPI, I2C. Such a device would be a real killer. I would design
it in straight away if it existed today for a Spartan price.

-- 
Programmeren in Almere?
E-mail naar nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)

DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:

>Antti <Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> writes:
>> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
>> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)

>I keep wondering if there's a market for a few "unbalanced" devices,
>like something with a ton of gates but in a tqfp-64 package.  Or BGA
>packages that only use the two outer rows for signals, for simpler
>board routing.

I also like the large logic core, small package idea. And a builtin optional
linear regulator for those pesky 2.5V and 1.2V would be really nice.
Add some builtin eeprom for the bitstream (like Spartan-3 AN).

Antti wrote:
> here it is:
> 
> 1) devices densities like in Spartan-3 (50..5000)
> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)
> 3) all good features of S3A/AN !!
> 4) design security with OTP encryption key (like Lattice ECP2)
> 5) other features as already planned by Xilinx
Supposedly Spartan4 will have RocketIOs/GTPs. Or at least
there will be a flavour that will have them, so maybe PCIe and SGMII for
Gigabit Ethernet?

To me this sounds an awful lot like "We need something like the Lattice
ECP2/M!", just like the Spartan3-AN sounds a lot like "We need something
like the Lattice XP/XP2!". Lattice must've struck a nerve with those two
families, they found their niche of devices Xilinx doesn't really cover
(yet)...

BTW, ECP3 is on its way, but supposedly will be not much more than a die
shrink of the ECP2.

cu,
Sean

-- 
My email address is only valid until the end of the month.
Try figuring out what the address is going to be after that...

DJ Delorie wrote:

> I keep wondering if there's a market for a few "unbalanced" devices,
> like something with a ton of gates but in a tqfp-64 package.  Or BGA
> packages that only use the two outer rows for signals, for simpler
> board routing.


I have seen more often need for a huge package and very little logic.
Nowadays I have seen that at networking side many designs are becoming
I/O limited and the pinouts are more and more complex to do because
of all restrictions what can be in what FPGA bank etc.

Hopefully serial interfaces will help in this problem (high speed
serial interfaces to memories etc.). But this on the other hand
needs also low cost FPGAs with decent amount of tranceivers.

--Kim

In article <xnr6era4pd.fsf@delorie.com>,
 DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> writes:
|> 
|> I keep wondering if there's a market for a few "unbalanced" devices,
|> like something with a ton of gates but in a tqfp-64 package.

I bet there is, although probably not a high numbers market -- but anyone
dealing with repairing long-gone legacy devices would love such beasts,
especially when they come with a separate V_I/O input where one could
adjust the logic level to stone-age (5V, 3.3V) -- heck, make at least two 
voltage domains for easy interfacing -- without the need for external drivers 
and level shifters.

And don't forget the internal configuration PROM.

Ok, make that thing reasonably priced and you probably have an ASIC killer
for modest-run "single chip plus some little discrete" stuff, like e.g. the 
C64DTV (IIRC 250.000 units were produced).
 
Rainer (practicing geriatronician)

On 3 Mrz., 23:08, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:
> "M.Randelzhofer" <techsel...@gmx.de> wrote:
> >"Antti" <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> >news:467475ec-6d16-4789-acec-07d3c1a4977e@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> >> here it is:
>
> >> 1) devices densities like in Spartan-3 (50..5000)
> >> 2) devices packages like Spartan-3E (including QN132 !) or better
> >> (microBGA 6x6 mm?)
> >> 3) all good features of S3A/AN !!
> >> 4) design security with OTP encryption key (like Lattice ECP2)
> >> 5) other features as already planned by Xilinx
>
> >> Antti
> >> has made his Christmas wish this year... or did I just describe
> >> Lattice XP3 or Cyclone IV?
> >> eh, I just wish Spartan-4 will have all the good things from Spartan-3
> >> subfamilies+extra goodies.
>
> >Hi Antti,
>
> >I've the same wishes, some additional i/O & memory cores would be nice:
>
> >6) USB2 host/slave interface with integrated PHY
>
> >7) Ethernet MAC + PHY
>
> >8) DDR2/3 core
>
> >9) some analog stuff (ADC, temp sensor, system supervisor)
>
> >S4 would be a serious competitor to 32bit microcontrollers, if some of their
> >standard peripherals are included in low price FPGA's.
>
> You forget a standard ARM core, some internal flash (say 32KB to
> 256KB), some memory (8KB to 64KB) and some standard pheripherals like
> UART, SPI, I2C. Such a device would be a real killer. I would design
> it in straight away if it existed today for a Spartan price.
>
> --
> Programmeren in Almere?
> E-mail naar nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)

well, Xilinx already own ARM IP-Core license, when Xilinx purchased
Triscend
they also got the IP licenses ownded by Triscend what included also
ARM.

so it is possible that the ARM core see new life in Spartan-4,
Xilinx has no extra royalty to pay

Antti