Would like to try ISIM, simple question

I have setup the latest ISE with latest updates.  I can't seem to find
the ISIM tool.   We normally run Aldec, but they have gotten a little
behind and just became partners with Xilinx.  I wanted to see if ISIM
could be used.

Looking on the Xilinx site, it seems like the full blown copy of ISE
should have at least the lite version of ISIM and Planahead.   I
loaded ISE from the DVD but we don't buy the version with the
simulator.   I can't seem to find a seperate download for ISIM.

Do I need to download the web version to evaluate ISIM?

I tried to call Xilinx support and was told I can't talk to anyone in
tech support and have to use the webcase.  We currently have 5 seats
so I guess we are no longer considered a big enough customer.   I tied
to use the webcase but need to open a new account which takes some 30
minutes to setup.   So, if you can halp me figure out how to get ISIM
running it would be great.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 08:52:44 -0700 (PDT), "lecroy7200@chek.com"
<lecroy7200@chek.com> wrote:

>I have setup the latest ISE with latest updates.  I can't seem to find
>the ISIM tool.   We normally run Aldec, but they have gotten a little
>behind and just became partners with Xilinx.  I wanted to see if ISIM
>could be used.
>
>Looking on the Xilinx site, it seems like the full blown copy of ISE
>should have at least the lite version of ISIM and Planahead.   I
>loaded ISE from the DVD but we don't buy the version with the
>simulator.   I can't seem to find a seperate download for ISIM.
>
>Do I need to download the web version to evaluate ISIM?
>

It's built in, (to both full ISE 10.1 and Webpack) but it took me most
of a day to find too...

In ISE, the "sources" window has a little drop down box at the top,
labelled "Sources for:" - select "Behavioural Simulation" here and the
simulator appears in the "Processes" window instead of the synth/PAR
tools.

I seem to remember I had to set an option somewhere to choose between
ISIM and Modelsim, but can't remember where.

ISIM is still a bit ropey compared with Modelsim, but when it doesn't
crash it seems to give accurate simulation results. The "Lite" version
handles moderately large designs but isn't up to post-route simulations
or EDK projects (it slows down to about a nanosecond per second)

- Brian

Brian,

Thanks for getting back with me.

>
> It's built in, (to both full ISE 10.1 and Webpack) but it took me most
> of a day to find too...
>
> In ISE, the "sources" window has a little drop down box at the top,
> labelled "Sources for:" - select "Behavioural Simulation" here and the
> simulator appears in the "Processes" window instead of the synth/PAR
> tools.

Yes, I see it and it does show ModelSim as the simulator.   It must be
a default as I do not have ModelSim installed on that PC.

>
> I seem to remember I had to set an option somewhere to choose between
> ISIM and Modelsim, but can't remember where.
>
Yes, there is a setup screen in the project preferences pulldown but I
can't select ISIM, or it's not called ISIM.   It's like it's just not
there.

I tried to download the webpack but the only thing it lets me download
is a TAR file.  I decompressed this and get some other sort of
compressed UNIX format.  Can't find a selection for the Windows
version of ISE.  Can't use their client (machine is not on network and
doubt it would work with our ISA and firewall.


> ISIM is still a bit ropey compared with Modelsim, but when it doesn't
> crash it seems to give accurate simulation results. The "Lite" version
> handles moderately large designs but isn't up to post-route simulations
> or EDK projects (it slows down to about a nanosecond per second)
>
> - Brian

Would sure like to try it just to see for myself how good/bad it
really is.    Simple question, too bad they won't talk with me.  I did
contact Avnet and received the following responce:

"You are correct.You must go through your ISE and make a web
case.Since they have moved to this process I have heard they are very
responsive. I will be in Thiursday AM and I will check in with you if
you want to discuss.
Thanks,"

Great responce.  Started this simple eval on last week....

lecroy7200 wrote:
>
> Yes, there is a setup screen in the project preferences
> pulldown but I can't select ISIM, or it's not called ISIM.
> It's like it's just not there.
>
 I don't have 10.1i installed here where I'm typing;
but in 9.2i, if you get into the Project Properties
window by right clicking the chip icon next to the
part number in the sources project view, you select
the ISE simulator with something like :
  Project Properties->Simulator->ISE Simulator

Or, the same choice is available in the File->New Project wizard.

>
> I tried to download the webpack but the only thing it lets
> me download is a TAR file.  I decompressed this and get
> some other sort of compressed UNIX format.  Can't find
> a selection for the Windows version of ISE.  Can't use
> their client (machine is not on network and doubt it would
> work with our ISA and firewall.
>

If your unzipper of choice doesn't handle it, first
having something like this installed:
 http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/

Then the following, or something like it, should work
on the SingleFileDownload tar file from Xilinx:
 \usr\local\wbin\tar -x <webpack_SFD.tar

( It's been a few months since I installed this;
if it's a tar inside a gzip inside a tar, then do
a "gzip -d webpack_SFD.gz" followed by another
"tar -x <webpack_SFD.tar" )

Giving you, after a suitable hard disc access interlude,
a webpack subdirectory with the setup executable inside.

>
> Would sure like to try it just to see for myself how good/bad it
> really is. Simple question, too bad they won't talk with me.
>
 Slow as molasses when I last tried it, but as another Brian said,
it sorta works when it isn't crashing.

Brian

On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:54:25 -0700 (PDT), Brian Davis
<brimdavis@aol.com> wrote:

>lecroy7200 wrote:
>>
>> Yes, there is a setup screen in the project preferences
>> pulldown but I can't select ISIM, or it's not called ISIM.
>> It's like it's just not there.
>>
> I don't have 10.1i installed here where I'm typing;
>but in 9.2i, if you get into the Project Properties
>window by right clicking the chip icon next to the
>part number in the sources project view, you select
>the ISE simulator with something like :
>  Project Properties->Simulator->ISE Simulator

Yes: right click on the chip icon is the step I'd forgotten; it's the
same in ISE10.

And the name is ISE Simulator in the drop-down list, not ISIM.
ISE10 and Webpack work in the same way in this respect, so unless the
ISE10 installation is corrupt, the Webpack install won't solve it.

Incidentally the same downloaded archive does install on both Linux and
Windows (32-bit only for Webpack) just as you say.

>> Would sure like to try it just to see for myself how good/bad it
>> really is. Simple question, too bad they won't talk with me.
>>
> Slow as molasses when I last tried it, but as another Brian said,
>it sorta works when it isn't crashing.

In ISE10 it doesn't seem painfully slow to me, unless you have exceeded
the project size limitation, though I haven't raced it against Modelsim.

- Brian

Brian Drummond wrote:
>
> In ISE10 it doesn't seem painfully slow to me, unless you have exceeded
> the project size limitation, though I haven't raced it against Modelsim.
>

As I mentioned, I haven't installed 10.1 at home yet;
with 9.2, under the code size limit, it takes about
4 minutes (3 min. compile / 1 min. run) for a testbench
that requires about 13 seconds (2s/11s) in another tool.

Brian

On Oct 21, 9:52=A0am, "lecroy7...@chek.com" <lecroy7...@chek.com> wrote:
> I have setup the latest ISE with latest updates. =A0I can't seem to find
> the ISIM tool. =A0 We normally run Aldec, but they have gotten a little
> behind and just became partners with Xilinx. =A0I wanted to see if ISIM
> could be used.
>
> Looking on the Xilinx site, it seems like the full blown copy of ISE
> should have at least the lite version of ISIM and Planahead. =A0 I
> loaded ISE from the DVD but we don't buy the version with the
> simulator. =A0 I can't seem to find a seperate download for ISIM.
>
> Do I need to download the web version to evaluate ISIM?
>
> I tried to call Xilinx support and was told I can't talk to anyone in
> tech support and have to use the webcase. =A0We currently have 5 seats
> so I guess we are no longer considered a big enough customer. =A0 I tied
> to use the webcase but need to open a new account which takes some 30
> minutes to setup. =A0 So, if you can halp me figure out how to get ISIM
> running it would be great.

It's probably easiest to use from the command line (like a DOS
shell).  Look for the executables vhpcomp.exe, vlogcomp.exe, and
fuse.exe.  The waveform viewer can be run standalone as isimwave.exe.
-Kevin

Thanks for the help.

I did have to switch to WinZip to decompress the files.  After two
weeks of BS, finally had someone from Xilinx call.  Sound like they
have some problem with our account not being setup for the correct
licensing.   Anyone else having problems since they dropped the
DVDs?   It's like a mad house over there now.


I was able to get ISIM working to some degree.  It seems to crash a
lot (exits program).  Must say it looks better than I expected.  I
can't seem to find a manual for it on the Xilinx site or in the on-
line manuals.  Has one been wrote that I can download from somewhere?

I also seem to be having a problem getting the DCMs to do anything
when using the behavioral simulation.  Just now trying post route to
see if this will work.

> I also seem to be having a problem getting the DCMs to do anything
> when using the behavioral simulation. =A0Just now trying post route to
> see if this will work.

That was a bust.  The tool gives some wacked out C code errors and
stops.

The project I am using for my evaluation will build correctly and I
have been running various versions of it on hardware for a few years.
Parts of it, including the DCMs were simulated in Aldec.  So I'm
guessing ISIM is just a little too new to use it yet.    If they plan
to continue to develop it like XST, I think it could be a useable tool
down the road.

FATAL_ERROR:Simulator:Fuse.cpp:424:$Id: Fuse.cpp,v 1.35.4.7 2008/05/28
00:03:05
   droth Exp $ - Failed to compile generated C code
   isim/_tmp/simprim/a_3586507481_2973208550.c   Process will
terminate. For
   technical support on this issue, please open a WebCase with this
project
   attached at http://www.xilinx.com/support.
FATAL_ERROR:Simulator:Fuse.cpp:424:$Id: Fuse.cpp,v 1.35.4.7 2008/05/28
00:03:05 droth Exp $ - Failed to compile generated C code isim/_tmp/
simprim/a_3586507481_2973208550.c   Process will terminate. For
technical support on this issue, please open a WebCase with this
project attached at http://www.xilinx.com/support.


Do a search on the errors and all Xilinx has is it being a problem in
Linux.  I was running it on plain jane XP Pro 32-bit.