What software do you use for PCB with FPGA ?

Hi,

I have to make a PCB using BGA pinout for FPGA.

What brand of software do you use ?

Place Route manually or automatically ?

Which plans to use and how ?

For the width of the tracks ?

Thanks.

Kappa

On Jan 27, 3:50=A0am, secure...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have to make a PCB using BGA pinout for FPGA.
>
> What brand of software do you use ?
>
> Place Route manually or automatically ?
>
> Which plans to use and how ?
>
> For the width of the tracks ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kappa

I don't know what your budget is, but if you're completely
inexperienced and have the money, you may want to consider
using a design service.  We use a local service who consistently
gives us the lowest price on design projects.  He uses PADS
software and only autoroutes non-critical nets.  I have
the PADS viewer which allows me to check his design output
and run off Gerber files for production.  A full seat of
PADS (without autorouting) starts around $5,000.00 but
you can get a free evaluation copy that is limited in
the size of design you can produce, if you want to play
around with it first.

For a hobby budget you could look at one of the on-line
do-it-yourself software / fab packages like PCB123.  I
have used this for simple 2 and 4-layer boards.  They
list the design rules on their site and you can download
the software there, too.  The downside to this is for
boards going to large-scale manufacture you have the
layout in a proprietary format and get stuck with the
same provider for your boards.

Regards,
Gabor

Hi Gabor,


> I don't know what your budget is, but if you're completely
> inexperienced and have the money, you may want to consider
> using a design service. =A0We use a local service who consistently
> gives us the lowest price on design projects. =A0

I have some experienced with OrCAD, only two layer, manul route
processing never used autoroute.

> He uses PADS
> software and only autoroutes non-critical nets. =A0I have
> the PADS viewer which allows me to check his design output
> and run off Gerber files for production. =A0A full seat of
> PADS (without autorouting) starts around $5,000.00 but
> you can get a free evaluation copy that is limited in
> the size of design you can produce, if you want to play
> around with it first.

PADs software from Mentor Graphics ?

I have to start a new project with an FPGA, therefore you must use a
multilayer PCB. I was wondering if anyone of you use systems, with
automatic systems routing. I do not even imagine how you can manually
route 600 or more tracks on multilayer PCB.

Kappa.

There are a wide range of tools with price tags from low to very high.
As yet I have not been convinced that an autorouter can do as a good a
job as a good human. Every board in our product is hand routed
including large boards e.g. our mini monster Broaddown4 -
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/broaddown4.html. Whatever
autorouter you use it will probably cost you extra layers and / or
vias and that's board cost. On the other hand it may be quick to get
to the first board back to assembly but my experience with people that
go this way is that the board ends up being modded and pcb updated
several times costing more in the end. Hand routing is very close up
and personal and often mistakes are spotted during hand routing of
boards. So take your choice of tools and method and enjoy.

John Adair
Enterpoint td.

On 27 Jan, 16:48, secure...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Gabor,
>
> > I don't know what your budget is, but if you're completely
> > inexperienced and have the money, you may want to consider
> > using a design service. =A0We use a local service who consistently
> > gives us the lowest price on design projects. =A0
>
> I have some experienced with OrCAD, only two layer, manul route
> processing never used autoroute.
>
> > He uses PADS
> > software and only autoroutes non-critical nets. =A0I have
> > the PADS viewer which allows me to check his design output
> > and run off Gerber files for production. =A0A full seat of
> > PADS (without autorouting) starts around $5,000.00 but
> > you can get a free evaluation copy that is limited in
> > the size of design you can produce, if you want to play
> > around with it first.
>
> PADs software from Mentor Graphics ?
>
> I have to start a new project with an FPGA, therefore you must use a
> multilayer PCB. I was wondering if anyone of you use systems, with
> automatic systems routing. I do not even imagine how you can manually
> route 600 or more tracks on multilayer PCB.
>
> Kappa.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:48:35 -0800 (PST)
secureasm@gmail.com wrote:

> [snip]
>
> I have to start a new project with an FPGA, therefore you must use a
> multilayer PCB. I was wondering if anyone of you use systems, with
> automatic systems routing. I do not even imagine how you can manually
> route 600 or more tracks on multilayer PCB.
> 
> Kappa.

Same way you manually do 600 of anything else, one at a time.

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology
Email address is currently out of order

On Jan 27, 11:48 am, secure...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Gabor,
>
> > I don't know what your budget is, but if you're completely
> > inexperienced and have the money, you may want to consider
> > using a design service.  We use a local service who consistently
> > gives us the lowest price on design projects.
>
> I have some experienced with OrCAD, only two layer, manul route
> processing never used autoroute.

Your initial post seemed to be asking about basic things like trace
width.  If you have designed boards before then I would expect that
you either know a bit about choosing a trace width or just winged it
and got lucky on your other boards.  Either way, there are places
where you can ask advice.  This is a good start, but some other news
groups might be better, such as sci.electronics.design and
sci.electronics.cad.  Once you choose a layout package there should be
support forums where you can ask for help, both specific to that
package and general advice on board design.


> > He uses PADS
> > software and only autoroutes non-critical nets.  I have
> > the PADS viewer which allows me to check his design output
> > and run off Gerber files for production.  A full seat of
> > PADS (without autorouting) starts around $5,000.00 but
> > you can get a free evaluation copy that is limited in
> > the size of design you can produce, if you want to play
> > around with it first.
>
> PADs software from Mentor Graphics ?
>
> I have to start a new project with an FPGA, therefore you must use a
> multilayer PCB. I was wondering if anyone of you use systems, with
> automatic systems routing. I do not even imagine how you can manually
> route 600 or more tracks on multilayer PCB.

I would recommend FreePCB.  I found it to be very intuitive for the
most part.  There are a few unobvious things that have to be learned,
but there is plenty of help to learn them.  The tool is good at manual
routing, but does support an autorouter.

Check out http://freepcb.com/ They have a forum and there is also a
Yahoo group.

As to laying out a BGA, often the chip maker will offer a suggested
routing plan to get the signals from the BGA pins to outside the
footprint.  Unless it is one of the BGAs that leaves a large area in
the middle of the pins and only has four rows of pins, you will need
to use vias between the pads.  The chip maker's suggestion is likely
as good as you can get.  They give a lot of detail on how to size the
pads using either the size of the copper pad or by using solder mask.
Read all of this carefully and don't ignore it.

There is a lot more to PCB design than just routing wires.  You should
treat this as a learning experience and read as much as you can so
that you can learn from the mistakes of others.

Rick

On Jan 27, 12:50 am, secure...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have to make a PCB using BGA pinout for FPGA.
>
> What brand of software do you use ?
>
> Place Route manually or automatically ?
>
> Which plans to use and how ?
>
> For the width of the tracks ?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kappa

Myself, I use OrCAD and PADs.  This pair is common in the village I
live in.

As far as width/spacing, I refer to the manufacturer's web site.  Both
'A' and 'X' publish PCB design guidelines.  I follow both (as close as
possible) when designing with either.

The part you will -really- need help with is the FPGA pin-out.  Lots
of different approaches, but for your very 1st board I suggest the
trial & error method so you can appreciate the complexity.

Just my two cents,
AL

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:00:45 -0800 (PST), Gabor <gabor@alacron.com>
wrote:

>On Jan 27, 3:50&#4294967295;am, secure...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have to make a PCB using BGA pinout for FPGA.
>>
>> What brand of software do you use ?
>>
>> Place Route manually or automatically ?
>>
>> Which plans to use and how ?
>>
>> For the width of the tracks ?
>>

>For a hobby budget you could look at one of the on-line
>do-it-yourself software / fab packages like PCB123.  I
>have used this for simple 2 and 4-layer boards.  They
>list the design rules on their site and you can download
>the software there, too.  

PCB123 are great, but unfortunately their design rules eliminate them
for BGAs (maybe 48-pin memory BGAs you can route on the top layer are
OK) Their parent company will make finer rule boards from other systems
though.

It may be worth looking at http://www.freepcb.com/
I tried this last year and it looked OK for a 676 pin 1mm BGA.
(If you cross-check the Gerber output carefully!) I didn't get as far as
finishing the board though.

- Brian

LittleAlex wrote:
> 
> Myself, I use OrCAD and PADs.  This pair is common in the village I
> live in.
> 

Many years ago I used some old PADs and then OrCAD. OrCAD's schematics
capture is great and the board layout is OK. But I didn't like the
process very much and hired somebody else to do a complex board. He used
Protel - now Altium Designer. After I used it a little to do minor 
changes to his design, I liked it so much that I do most boards myself 
once again.

In particular the "fan-out" feature is great. It automates routing the 
BGA pads to the outside world. Then it is a very good idea to route by 
hand. Even the best autorouters make ugly boards.

My advice is to use Altium Designer if you can afford it.

-Alex.

Hi Rob Gaddi

> Same way you manually do 600 of anything else, one at a time.

... :-) ... I imagine that it is the best.

Thnaks.

Kappa.