Hi, I am going to buy/build a Logic Analyzer, I need some help to properly select some features. My requirements: - absolute minimum 16 channels - state analysis 100 MHz minimum - variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is better) - memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) - UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire - export capabilities - expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) So far, there are these contenders: - Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) 389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping = 539USD! = 423.794 EUR! Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It may come in the future), no additional plugins, not expandable - ZeroPlus LA16064/LA160128 (http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/products.php?product_id=38) (200EUR / 300EUR) Best compromise, 16 channels(75MHz/100MHZ) or 100MHz/200MHz). This one has additional decode plugins, so I could have: - UART, I2C, SPI, 7 Segments (standard) - additional 2 free plugins out of these: http://www.zeroplus.com.tw/logic-analyzer_en/ I was planning to select 1-wire but cannot decide on the other one I could get for free. What would you choose for robotic usage? I don't have any interest in audio, so maybe CANBUS could be a good choice, I would get all just in case but they are each in the 100-500 USD range. What about simple Digital or Arithmetic Logic plugin? - Sump FPGA Based Logic Analyzer http://www.sump.org/projects/analyzer/ 99USD for the Digilent board, probably about 150USD to get the board here + the conditioning signal stuff needed Very nice, many channels and fast, weak protection and conditioning input needs work to be up to the task. It could be expandable since the serial protocol is documented. - OpenVeriFLA integrated logic Analyzer 0/99 USD for a FPGA development board (if not using the same target), really difficult to me to understand, but it could be worth the effort since it should be customizable Any other low cost alternative to these ones? TIA, Giuseppe Marullo
Logic Analyzer
Started by ●February 11, 2009
Reply by ●February 11, 20092009-02-11
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:45:30 +0100, "Giuseppe Marullo" <giuseppe.marullo@nospam.iname.com> wrote:>Hi, >I am going to buy/build a Logic Analyzer, I need some help >to properly select some features. > >My requirements: >- absolute minimum 16 channels >- state analysis 100 MHz minimum >- variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is >better) >- memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) >- UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire >- export capabilities > >- expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) > >So far, there are these contenders: > >- Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) > 389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping = 539USD! = >423.794 EUR! > Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), >many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It >may come in the future), no additional plugins, not >expandableThey may have Euro-zone resellers. Guessing that based on their having German and French versions of the help files; a quick Google search turns up a Swiss site, at least. Try e-mailing the Intronix support line for info on who may be a reseller on that side of the pond. Note that the Intronix also includes a CAN interpreter. CANbus is pretty useful for control and monitoring apps. -- Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
Reply by ●February 12, 20092009-02-12
On Feb 11, 3:49=A0pm, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:45:30 +0100, "GiuseppeMarullo" > > > > > > <giuseppe.maru...@nospam.iname.com> wrote: > >Hi, > >I am going to buy/build a LogicAnalyzer, I need some help > >to properly select some features. > > >My requirements: > >- absolute minimum 16 channels > >- state analysis 100 MHz minimum > >- variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is > >better) > >- memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) > >- UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire > >- export capabilities > > >- expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) > > >So far, there are these contenders: > > >- Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) > > =A0389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping =3D 539USD! =3D > >423.794 EUR! > > =A0Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), > >many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It > >may come in the future), no additional plugins, not > >expandable > > They may have Euro-zone resellers. Guessing that based on their having > German and French versions of the help files; a quick Google search > turns up a Swiss site, at least. Try e-mailing the Intronix support line > for info on who may be a reseller on that side of the pond. > > Note that the Intronix also includes a CAN interpreter. CANbus is pretty > useful for control and monitoring apps. > > -- > Rich Webb =A0 =A0 Norfolk, VA- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -Rich, thanks but I did my homework already, including VAT it is still in a whopping 500 EUR range, I do not question the value of the tool, by still my pockets are not that deep for a LA now. I just need something that will allow me to debug stuff with more than 8 wires and see 5 samples of a 25MHz signals, or I would have solved with Sealea or Usbee at 150USD. Giuseppe
Reply by ●February 12, 20092009-02-12
On 12 f=E9v, 11:04, giuseppe.maru...@iname.com wrote:> On Feb 11, 3:49=A0pm, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:45:30 +0100, "GiuseppeMarullo" > > > <giuseppe.maru...@nospam.iname.com> wrote: > > >Hi, > > >I am going to buy/build a LogicAnalyzer, I need some help > > >to properly select some features. > > > >My requirements: > > >- absolute minimum 16 channels > > >- state analysis 100 MHz minimum > > >- variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is > > >better) > > >- memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) > > >- UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire > > >- export capabilities > > > >- expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) > > > >So far, there are these contenders: > > > >- Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) > > > =A0389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping =3D 539USD! =3D > > >423.794 EUR! > > > =A0Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), > > >many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It > > >may come in the future), no additional plugins, not > > >expandable > > > They may have Euro-zone resellers. Guessing that based on their having > > German and French versions of the help files; a quick Google search > > turns up a Swiss site, at least. Try e-mailing the Intronix support lin=e> > for info on who may be a reseller on that side of the pond. > > > Note that the Intronix also includes a CAN interpreter. CANbus is prett=y> > useful for control and monitoring apps. > > > -- > > Rich Webb =A0 =A0 Norfolk, VA- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Rich, > thanks but I did my homework already, including VAT it is still in a > whopping 500 EUR range, I do not question the value of the tool, by > still my pockets are not that deep for a LA now. I just need something > that will allow me to debug stuff with more than 8 wires and see 5 > samples of a 25MHz signals, or I would have solved with Sealea or > Usbee at 150USD. > > GiuseppeI've been using the Sump Logic Analyzer for some time now, and it is really nice (I already owned the Spartan-3 Starter Board).. The trigger system is fine, and the client software is OK. Everything is released under the GNU GPL, so you have access to source code. I've added to the client software an export to VHDL source, so I can view it in ModelSim, and use analyzer result as a testbench. One drawback is that it uses the RS232 serial port, but well, replacing it with an USB connection using something like FTDI245 USB FIFO could be done easily. Another one is that you need to protect the FPGA inputs, in my case I used a few resistors and zener diodes to clamp the input levels. My 2 cents Greg
Reply by ●February 12, 20092009-02-12
Yes, this project is very interesting, I could end up using it, the only "problem" is that I don't have the board and should port it to mine, oh I am not a big fan of Java but if the client is good enough, at that price... I could add the protection stuff, could you please share your design? I think is the usual serie resistor with a double fat zeners to clip to a tolerable level the input. Parts used? Giuseppe giuseppe.marullo@NOSPAMiname.com On Feb 12, 5:04=A0pm, Gregory Estrade <gregory.estr...@gmail.com> wrote:> On 12 f=E9v, 11:04, giuseppe.maru...@iname.com wrote: > > > > > > > On Feb 11, 3:49=A0pm, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: > > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:45:30 +0100, "GiuseppeMarullo" > > > > <giuseppe.maru...@nospam.iname.com> wrote: > > > >Hi, > > > >I am going to buy/build a LogicAnalyzer, I need some help > > > >to properly select some features. > > > > >My requirements: > > > >- absolute minimum 16 channels > > > >- state analysis 100 MHz minimum > > > >- variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is > > > >better) > > > >- memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) > > > >- UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire > > > >- export capabilities > > > > >- expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) > > > > >So far, there are these contenders: > > > > >- Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) > > > > =A0389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping =3D 539USD! =3D > > > >423.794 EUR! > > > > =A0Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), > > > >many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It > > > >may come in the future), no additional plugins, not > > > >expandable > > > > They may have Euro-zone resellers. Guessing that based on their havin=g> > > German and French versions of the help files; a quick Google search > > > turns up a Swiss site, at least. Try e-mailing the Intronix support l=ine> > > for info on who may be a reseller on that side of the pond. > > > > Note that the Intronix also includes a CAN interpreter. CANbus is pre=tty> > > useful for control and monitoring apps. > > > > -- > > > Rich Webb =A0 =A0 Norfolk, VA- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Rich, > > thanks but I did my homework already, including VAT it is still in a > > whopping 500 EUR range, I do not question the value of the tool, by > > still my pockets are not that deep for a LA now. I just need something > > that will allow me to debug stuff with more than 8 wires and see 5 > > samples of a 25MHz signals, or I would have solved with Sealea or > > Usbee at 150USD. > > > Giuseppe > > I've been using the Sump LogicAnalyzerfor some time now, and it is > really nice (I already owned the Spartan-3 Starter Board).. > The trigger system is fine, and the client software is OK. Everything > is released under the GNU GPL, so you have access to source code. > I've added to the client software an export to VHDL source, so I can > view it in ModelSim, and useanalyzerresult as a testbench. > One drawback is that it uses the RS232 serial port, but well, > replacing it with an USB connection using something like FTDI245 USB > FIFO could be done easily. > Another one is that you need to protect the FPGA inputs, in my case I > used a few resistors and zener diodes to clamp the input levels. > > My 2 cents > Greg- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
Reply by ●February 13, 20092009-02-13
On 12 f=E9v, 21:39, giuseppe.maru...@iname.com wrote:> Yes, > this project is very interesting, I could end up using it, the only > "problem" is that I don't have the board and should port it to mine, > oh I am not a big fan of Java but if the client is good enough, at > that price... > > I could add the protection stuff, could you please share your design? > I think is the usual serie resistor with a double fat zeners to clip > to a tolerable level the input. Parts used? > > Giuseppe > > giuseppe.maru...@NOSPAMiname.com > On Feb 12, 5:04=A0pm, Gregory Estrade <gregory.estr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 12 f=E9v, 11:04, giuseppe.maru...@iname.com wrote: > > > > On Feb 11, 3:49=A0pm, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote: > > > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:45:30 +0100, "GiuseppeMarullo" > > > > > <giuseppe.maru...@nospam.iname.com> wrote: > > > > >Hi, > > > > >I am going to buy/build a LogicAnalyzer, I need some help > > > > >to properly select some features. > > > > > >My requirements: > > > > >- absolute minimum 16 channels > > > > >- state analysis 100 MHz minimum > > > > >- variable theresold (TTL/3.3V absolute minimum variable is > > > > >better) > > > > >- memory (don't know what to search for, 32Kbit/ch minimum?) > > > > >- UART, SPI. I2C AND 1-Wire > > > > >- export capabilities > > > > > >- expandable (nice to have, custom plugins) > > > > > >So far, there are these contenders: > > > > > >- Intronix (http://www.pctestinstruments.com/) > > > > > =A0389USD + 120USD customs + 30USD shipping =3D 539USD! =3D > > > > >423.794 EUR! > > > > > =A0Probably the best, highly priced (hobbyst and customs!), > > > > >many channels, speediest and very few memory. No 1-Wire (It > > > > >may come in the future), no additional plugins, not > > > > >expandable > > > > > They may have Euro-zone resellers. Guessing that based on their hav=ing> > > > German and French versions of the help files; a quick Google search > > > > turns up a Swiss site, at least. Try e-mailing the Intronix support=line> > > > for info on who may be a reseller on that side of the pond. > > > > > Note that the Intronix also includes a CAN interpreter. CANbus is p=retty> > > > useful for control and monitoring apps. > > > > > -- > > > > Rich Webb =A0 =A0 Norfolk, VA- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > Rich, > > > thanks but I did my homework already, including VAT it is still in a > > > whopping 500 EUR range, I do not question the value of the tool, by > > > still my pockets are not that deep for a LA now. I just need somethin=g> > > that will allow me to debug stuff with more than 8 wires and see 5 > > > samples of a 25MHz signals, or I would have solved with Sealea or > > > Usbee at 150USD. > > > > Giuseppe > > > I've been using the Sump LogicAnalyzerfor some time now, and it is > > really nice (I already owned the Spartan-3 Starter Board).. > > The trigger system is fine, and the client software is OK. Everything > > is released under the GNU GPL, so you have access to source code. > > I've added to the client software an export to VHDL source, so I can > > view it in ModelSim, and useanalyzerresult as a testbench. > > One drawback is that it uses the RS232 serial port, but well, > > replacing it with an USB connection using something like FTDI245 USB > > FIFO could be done easily. > > Another one is that you need to protect the FPGA inputs, in my case I > > used a few resistors and zener diodes to clamp the input levels. > > > My 2 cents > > Greg- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -See here : http://www.daycounter.com/Circuits/Level-Translators/Level-Trans= lator-Zener-Clamp.gif I don't have the analyzer near me, but IIRC, I used BZX55-C3V3 diodes, and 150 ohms resistors. The Java client is minimal (I still haven't tested the latest version though), however I use it mostly to make a vhdl export, as ModelSim for instance has a more polished UI.
Reply by ●February 13, 20092009-02-13
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:14:18 -0800 (PST), Gregory Estrade wrote:> [I] make a vhdl export, as ModelSim >for instance has a more polished UI.You could also consider exporting VCD. That would save you the trouble of simulating your resulting VHDL, and would permit you to use free viewers such as gtkwave (or Modelsim, which has the capability to view VCD in its wave viewer). VCD is a pretty weird format, but the parts you need are probably simple enough. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_change_dump as a starting point. I tried a Google search for "vcd file format" and got a gazillion hits on some strange video format, which is NOT what you want! -- Jonathan Bromley, Consultant DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com http://www.MYCOMPANY.com The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.
Reply by ●February 13, 20092009-02-13
On 13 f=E9v, 11:32, Jonathan Bromley <jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:> On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 02:14:18 -0800 (PST), Gregory Estrade wrote: > > [I] make a vhdl export, as ModelSim > >for instance has a more polished UI. > > You could also consider exporting VCD. =A0That would > save you the trouble of simulating your resulting VHDL, > and would permit you to use free viewers such as > gtkwave (or Modelsim, which has the capability > to view VCD in its wave viewer). > > VCD is a pretty weird format, but the parts you need > are probably simple enough. =A0See > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_change_dump > > as a starting point. =A0I tried a Google search for > "vcd file format" and got a gazillion hits on some > strange video format, which is NOT what you want! > -- > Jonathan Bromley, Consultant > > DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how > VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services > > Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK > jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.comhttp://www.MYCOMPANY.com > > The contents of this message may contain personal views which > are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.Thanks for the info, it shouldn't be too hard to add this feature too, I'll give it a try.
Reply by ●February 13, 20092009-02-13
>The Java client is minimal (I still haven't tested the latest version
>though), however I use it mostly to make a vhdl export, as ModelSim
>for instance has a more polished UI.
Gregory, thanks for all the info, the client very minimal:
C:\data\laspartan3e\LogicAnalyzer-release\client>java -jar analyzer.jar
Error while invoking application: null
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeAndWait(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.SwingUtilities.invokeAndWait(Unknown Source)
at org.sump.analyzer.Loader.main(Loader.java:94)
Caused by: java.lang.Error: Do not use
org.sump.analyzer.tools.SPIProtocolAnalysis$SPIProtocolAnalysisDialog.add()
use org.sump.anal
yzer.tools.SPIProtocolAnalysis$SPIProtocolAnalysisDialog.getContentPane().add()
instead
at javax.swing.JDialog.createRootPaneException(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.JDialog.addImpl(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.Container.add(Unknown Source)
at
org.sump.analyzer.tools.SPIProtocolAnalysis$SPIProtocolAnalysisDialog.<init>(SPIProtocolAnalysis.java:178)
at
org.sump.analyzer.tools.SPIProtocolAnalysis.init(SPIProtocolAnalysis.java:536)
at org.sump.analyzer.MainWindow.createGUI(MainWindow.java:207)
at org.sump.analyzer.MainWindow.run(MainWindow.java:401)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown
Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)
Any idea?
Giuseppe
Reply by ●February 13, 20092009-02-13
