ISE/EDK/SDK 11.1 licensing

On May 1, 12:50 pm, no_spa2...@yahoo.fr wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Even if I'm quite a "Xilinx "fan", I hate the new policy of  Xilinx
> license. In my previous company, we'd bought as many license as the
> number of FPGA engineers but we installed ISE on more PC : for lab,
> for home (for work or to learn), for some developers who works on EDK
> for few weeks/months and personally, I'd luck to have to 2 PC and I'd
> installed ISE 10.1 on both with same license and now, it's impossible.
> How to tell them it's very a bad idea ? Does they know that for a
> small company it can be expensive and have a limited number of
> licenses can reduce productivity (work at home for instance) ? What is
> your opinion ?
> Regards.

My opinion?  It is brave of you to ask.

My opinion is that Xilinx is motivated to sell silicon.  Improving my
or your productivity is not their first goal.

I understand that in the past, Xilinx had to pay a per-seat fee to the
supplier of their synthesis software, so controlling the number of
copies was important to them.  It is entirely possible that there are
features in their current suite that have similar fees attached.

I am rational enough to accept that Xilinx will provide priority to
the large user, and my hobby activity is more of a marketing cost than
a design win.  I wonder if a 3-man design team counts as a "large"
user.

How do you tell them that this is a bad idea?  By designing in Altera
or LatticeSemi parts.

AL

On May 1, 8:09=A0am, "MM" <mb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:s%yKl.15543$hc1.2411@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
>
>
> > What would that workflow look like? Seems to me anything useful would
> > involve a license violation of some sort. I hate to be the one to say
> > this, but MS has a Lite version of VS2008 for free download. As with
> > Eclipse, you either love it or you hate it, and I happen to hate Eclips=
e.
> > Why bother with SDK? (That wasn't rhetorical. I'm wondering this moment=
 if
> > there's something awefully compelling to make you contemplate what you'=
re
> > contemplating.)
>
> We currently have to support two projects. From the hardware point of vie=
w
> both of them have top level in ISE and both include a PPC subsystem. One =
is
> implemented in V4FX60 and another in V4FX20/40. On the software side the
> bigger board runs under VxWorks and we are using VxWorks design environme=
nt
> (another Eclipse) for the application software development. However, to
> build a BSP for that board, EDK has to be run on a PC where VxWorks is
> installed or at least that's what we believe, I can imagine that this can=
 be
> worked around somehow. As mostly a hardware designer I don't have VxWorks=
 on
> my PC, so this step is done by a software person. The smaller board runs
> with no OS and the application for it is maintained in SDK. I think debug=
ger
> facility in SDK will not work if EDK is not installed. Also, starting fro=
m
> 10.1 or perhaps even 9, SDK would alsways ask for an xmp file when starte=
d
> and it would then try to verify if BSP is up to date. I can't see how thi=
s
> will work without EDK...
>
> /Mikhail

I am told by the support person for an SDK Web Case that 11.1's SDK is
"more separate" from EDK than previous versions. Xilinx' intent for
SDK was always for the hardware guys to finish the FPGA design and
throw it over the wall to the software guys who are supposed to use
SDK.* But as it is now, SDK still requires EDK features.

I have not checked to see whether that assertion is true.

-a

* I know, this whole concept is ridiculous.

> How do you tell them that this is a bad idea?  By designing in Altera
> or LatticeSemi parts.
My 25 cents for this tought ...
Or maybe Actel parts ... those flash, non-volatile ones, AFAIR, Igloo is the 
name. With ARM IP along with it.

-- 
StoneThrower
www.dgmicrosys.com

<Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> wrote in message 
news:beb204d5-4792-4298-afb5-85b167e7e32f@b7g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
well, the worry of OP comes from the fact that with 11.1 there is no
price
given for EDK any more, the only possibility to obtain EDK includes
buying
a package that includes a FULL ISE version.

so if you want EDK 11.1, you can buy it from Avent: 3395$ stock NO,
lead time 26 weeks, or
nuhorizons, price 3395, stock NO, lead time 2 weeks.

ISE/EDK or any other software is no longer available from Xilinx
online store, only from distributors.

So for me it is clear that the OP doesnt want to pay $3395 for the EDK
license (and this is for one year only!).

===============
I almost took that for gospel. Xilinx lists separate licensing for the EDK, 
SDK, and even DSP tools. 
http://www.xilinx.com/onlinestore/design_resources.htm

Node-locked license prices are as follows. Floating license are $100 more 
per seat.

EDK: $500
SDK: $200
CSP: $700

These seem to me to be in line with what I recall of the old pricing.

I'm affected because they no longer list separate licensing for system 
generator without acceldsp. Chipscope Pro appears to be sold only with CSP 
Serial. I don't recall the old pricing. It might be a useful bundling of 
additional functionality at low or no extra cost, or significantly higher 
cost for tools and functionality you don't and didn't need.

no_spa2005@yahoo.fr wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Even if I'm quite a "Xilinx "fan", I hate the new policy of  Xilinx
> license. In my previous company, we'd bought as many license as the
> number of FPGA engineers but we installed ISE on more PC : for lab,
> for home (for work or to learn), for some developers who works on EDK
> for few weeks/months and personally, I'd luck to have to 2 PC and I'd
> installed ISE 10.1 on both with same license and now, it's impossible.
> How to tell them it's very a bad idea ? Does they know that for a
> small company it can be expensive and have a limited number of
> licenses can reduce productivity (work at home for instance) ? What is
> your opinion ?
> Regards.

Your posts indicates that your company buys 1 license per 1 engineer.

Under the 11.1 licensing system you can have a license server that 
manages your pool of floating licenses and have ISE 11.1 installed on 
any number of machines in your office.

Working from home is a different issue, but so long as the engineer has 
connection to the work network then there won't be any problem.

Ed McGettigan
--
Xilinx Inc.

On May 1, 9:23=A0pm, "MM" <mb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "MikeWhy" <boat042-nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:75GKl.28897>
>
> > well, the worry of OP comes from the fact that with 11.1 there is no
> > price
> > given for EDK any more, the only possibility to obtain EDK includes
> > buying
> > a package that includes a FULL ISE version.
>
> > Antti
>
> It's not quite true. You can still get EDK separately for $495
> (http://www.xilinx.com/onlinestore/design_resources.htm), and it looks as=
 it
> comes with a separate license, but it is not clear to me based on my
> previous experience whether EDK can actually be used on its own without I=
SE.
> I guess Webpack is an option if it will support the devices I need...
>
> /Mikhail

hm, my fault.. I looked the PDF document first, and that listed only
the bundles
so i overlooked the edk separate pricing in the web page

Antti

LittleAlex wrote:
> How do you tell them that this is a bad idea?  By designing in Altera
> or LatticeSemi parts.

Well, at least Lattice's licensing system is the same as it is now with
Xilinx: node-locked licenses per machine or floating licenses for a
considerably higher price, so that won't really solve anything.

cu,
Sean

Ed McGettigan wrote:
> Your posts indicates that your company buys 1 license per 1 engineer.
> 
> Under the 11.1 licensing system you can have a license server that
> manages your pool of floating licenses and have ISE 11.1 installed on
> any number of machines in your office.

Any news on the educational versions of ISE? Avnet and NuHorizons don't
list them at all, and the XUP-Website hasn't been updated yet (it still
talks about "ISE Foundation"...).

We have a mixture of licenses at the moment, some commercial ones for
our commercial projects, and educational licenses for our students and
for the research labs.

I've sent an email to xup@xilinx.com a few days ago asking about this,
but haven't gotten a response yet.

Should there be no more educational licenses, we'd have to buy dozens of
additional licenses, costs would skyrocket. Floating licenses don't help
much if you're teaching a course and 12 students have to use ISE at the
same time. WebPACK is sufficient for some stuff, but not all...

cu,
Sean

-- 
Replace "MONTH" with the three-letter abbreviation of the current month
(simple, eh?).

Sean Durkin schrieb:
> LittleAlex wrote:
>> How do you tell them that this is a bad idea?  By designing in Altera
>> or LatticeSemi parts.
> 
> Well, at least Lattice's licensing system is the same as it is now with
> Xilinx: node-locked licenses per machine or floating licenses for a
> considerably higher price, so that won't really solve anything.
Found some info now:

http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/customer_notices/xcn09015.pdf

There still are EDU-versions at a reduced price, they're just not listed
under "related products" yet.

cu,
Sean

-- 
Replace "MONTH" with the three-letter abbreviation of the current month
(simple, eh?).

Sean Durkin wrote:
> Any news on the educational versions of ISE? Avnet and NuHorizons don't
> list them at all, and the XUP-Website hasn't been updated yet (it still
> talks about "ISE Foundation"...).
Found some info now:

http://www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/customer_notices/xcn09015.pdf

There still are EDU-versions at a reduced price, they're just not listed
under "related products" yet.

cu,
Sean

-- 
Replace "MONTH" with the three-letter abbreviation of the current month
(simple, eh?).