please recommend a soft processor for small image processing tasks

hi all,
im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. The
processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my options
in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
requirements.

1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial products
2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
simulators, emulators)
3) robust and stable
4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.

i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not sure
how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (2),
(3) and (4) above. Please help.

in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fees
structure

thanks

On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi all,
> im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. The
> processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my options
> in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> requirements.
>
> 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial products
> 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> simulators, emulators)
> 3) robust and stable
> 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not sure
> how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (2),
> (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fees
> structure

A few points:
- Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good.
- Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
- I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"

You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit weak
in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
simulation support.

Regards,
Tommy

On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi all,
> > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. The
> > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my options
> > in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> > requirements.
>
> > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial products
> > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> > simulators, emulators)
> > 3) robust and stable
> > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not sure
> > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (2),
> > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fees
> > structure
>
> A few points:
> - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good.
> - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"
>
> You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit weak
> in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> simulation support.
>
> Regards,
> Tommy

thanks tommy.

why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
projects?

thanks.

On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > hi all,
> > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. The
> > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my options
> > > in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> > > requirements.
>
> > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial products
> > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> > > simulators, emulators)
> > > 3) robust and stable
> > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not sur=
e
> > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (2),
> > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fees
> > > structure
>
> > A few points:
> > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good.
> > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"
>
> > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit weak
> > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> > simulation support.
>
> > Regards,
> > Tommy
>
> thanks tommy.
>
> why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> projects?
>
> thanks.

it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter

Antti

On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
<Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > hi all,
> > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. The
> > > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my optio=
ns
> > > > in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> > > > requirements.
>
> > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial product=
s
> > > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> > > > simulators, emulators)
> > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > > i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not s=
ure
> > > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (2)=
,
> > > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fees
> > > > structure
>
> > > A few points:
> > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good.
> > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"
>
> > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit weak
> > > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> > > simulation support.
>
> > > Regards,
> > > Tommy
>
> > thanks tommy.
>
> > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > projects?
>
> > thanks.
>
> it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
>
> Antti

hi again,

i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a download
location for it. Can some one point me to a link?

thanks

On May 21, 11:42=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
>
>
>
> <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > hi all,
> > > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. Th=
e
> > > > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my opt=
ions
> > > > > in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> > > > > requirements.
>
> > > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial produ=
cts
> > > > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> > > > > simulators, emulators)
> > > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > > > i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not=
 sure
> > > > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (=
2),
> > > > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fe=
es
> > > > > structure
>
> > > > A few points:
> > > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good=
.
> > > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"
>
> > > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit wea=
k
> > > > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > > > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> > > > simulation support.
>
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Tommy
>
> > > thanks tommy.
>
> > > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > > projects?
>
> > > thanks.
>
> > it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
>
> > Antti
>
> hi again,
>
> i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a download
> location for it. Can some one point me to a link?
>
> thanks

LEON-2 is deprecated, if using LEON should take 3

and: while LEON just may fit s3-400 (I have done that) it leave no
resources left for you
so it is not an option for s3-400


Antti

On May 21, 10:42=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
>
>
>
> <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > hi all,
> > > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. Th=
e
> > > > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my opt=
ions
> > > > > in choosing a proper soft processor for the task. these are my
> > > > > requirements.
>
> > > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial produ=
cts
> > > > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain,
> > > > > simulators, emulators)
> > > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > > > i know about processors OpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not=
 sure
> > > > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the (=
2),
> > > > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing fe=
es
> > > > > structure
>
> > > > A few points:
> > > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very good=
.
> > > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates"
>
> > > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit wea=
k
> > > > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > > > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> > > > simulation support.
>
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Tommy
>
> > > thanks tommy.
>
> > > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > > projects?
>
> > > thanks.
>
> > it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
>
> > Antti
>
> hi again,
>
> i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a download
> location for it. Can some one point me to a link?
>
> thanks

MicroBlaze is nice and easy to use, but with s3-400 you won't have
much space left. Since the processor could not digest data in real
time, you probably need a frame buffer also, so bigger FPGA is
probably inevitable.
You might consider taking this imaging development kit for a start:
www.optomotive.si


Cheers,

Ales

On May 21, 3:57=A0pm, ales.gor...@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 21, 10:42=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
>
> > <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > hi all,
> > > > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor. =
The
> > > > > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my o=
ptions
> > > > > > in choosing a propersoftprocessor for the task. these are my
> > > > > > requirements.
>
> > > > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial pro=
ducts
> > > > > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolchain=
,
> > > > > > simulators, emulators)
> > > > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > > > > i know aboutprocessorsOpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but not=
 sure
> > > > > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially the=
 (2),
> > > > > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensing =
fees
> > > > > > structure
>
> > > > > A few points:
> > > > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very go=
od.
> > > > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gates=
"
>
> > > > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit w=
eak
> > > > > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > > > > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellent
> > > > > simulation support.
>
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Tommy
>
> > > > thanks tommy.
>
> > > > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > > > projects?
>
> > > > thanks.
>
> > > it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
>
> > > Antti
>
> > hi again,
>
> > i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a download
> > location for it. Can some one point me to a link?
>
> > thanks
>
> MicroBlaze is nice and easy to use, but with s3-400 you won't have
> much space left. Since the processor could not digest data in real
> time, you probably need a frame buffer also, so bigger FPGA is
> probably inevitable.
> You might consider taking this imaging development kit for a start:www.op=
tomotive.si
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ales

Hi Ales, thanks for the info. I will have a look in to your
suggesstion as well.

btw, i have decided to implement all algorithms in a normal PC first
to find out processing power requirements. If requirements are too
high and algorithms cannot be run inside s3-400 with required timing
constraints, the whole project is kind of become useless.

Assuming s3-400 is capable of delivering the throughput, what i need
now is a processor (open source LGPL like) that fits inside this
device without much of a problem leaving some resources for other
stuff like USB core etc. This makes me to remove both OpenRISC and
LEON from consideration. What are the potions i have now?

I had a look in to YARI, and niktech, but not sure how much software
development support (compilers, debuggers, etc) they have. I have also
tried MIPS based processor as well. I need your support to chose the
best one!

thanks

On May 21, 7:09=A0pm, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 21, 3:57=A0pm, ales.gor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 21, 10:42=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
>
> > > <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > hi all,
> > > > > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS sensor=
. The
> > > > > > > processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so im evaluating my=
 options
> > > > > > > in choosing a propersoftprocessor for the task. these are my
> > > > > > > requirements.
>
> > > > > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in commercial p=
roducts
> > > > > > > 2) need to have good documentation and support tools (toolcha=
in,
> > > > > > > simulators, emulators)
> > > > > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K gates.
>
> > > > > > > i know aboutprocessorsOpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2, but n=
ot sure
> > > > > > > how good they are with regard to my requirements, specially t=
he (2),
> > > > > > > (3) and (4) above. Please help.
>
> > > > > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its licensin=
g fees
> > > > > > > structure
>
> > > > > > A few points:
> > > > > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are very =
good.
> > > > > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > > > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K gat=
es"
>
> > > > > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a bit=
 weak
> > > > > > in the documentation department though but has great tools. The
> > > > > > hardware debugger still work in progress, but YARI has excellen=
t
> > > > > > simulation support.
>
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Tommy
>
> > > > > thanks tommy.
>
> > > > > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > > > > projects?
>
> > > > > thanks.
>
> > > > it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
>
> > > > Antti
>
> > > hi again,
>
> > > i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a downloa=
d
> > > location for it. Can some one point me to a link?
>
> > > thanks
>
> > MicroBlaze is nice and easy to use, but with s3-400 you won't have
> > much space left. Since the processor could not digest data in real
> > time, you probably need a frame buffer also, so bigger FPGA is
> > probably inevitable.
> > You might consider taking this imaging development kit for a start:www.=
optomotive.si
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Ales
>
> Hi Ales, thanks for the info. I will have a look in to your
> suggesstion as well.
>
> btw, i have decided to implement all algorithms in a normal PC first
> to find out processing power requirements. If requirements are too
> high and algorithms cannot be run inside s3-400 with required timing
> constraints, the whole project is kind of become useless.
>
> Assuming s3-400 is capable of delivering the throughput, what i need
> now is a processor (open source LGPL like) that fits inside this
> device without much of a problem leaving some resources for other
> stuff like USB core etc. This makes me to remove both OpenRISC and
> LEON from consideration. What are the potions i have now?
>
> I had a look in to YARI, and niktech, but not sure how much software
> development support (compilers, debuggers, etc) they have. I have also
> tried MIPS based processor as well. I need your support to chose the
> best one!
>
> thanks

if you think you use usb soft core you can already forget s3-400


antti

On Thu, 21 May 2009 09:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
CMOS <manusha1980@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 21, 3:57=A0pm, ales.gor...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On May 21, 10:42=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 21, 9:35=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
> >
> > > <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > > On May 21, 7:30=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On May 21, 12:17=A0am, Tommy Thorn <tommy.th...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > On May 20, 11:05=A0am, CMOS <manusha1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > > hi all,
> > > > > > > im planning to implement barcode scanning using a CMOS
> > > > > > > sensor. The processing needs to happen inside a FPGA, so
> > > > > > > im evaluating my options in choosing a
> > > > > > > propersoftprocessor for the task. these are my
> > > > > > > requirements.
> >
> > > > > > > 1) open source and need to be able to be used in
> > > > > > > commercial products 2) need to have good documentation
> > > > > > > and support tools (toolchain, simulators, emulators)
> > > > > > > 3) robust and stable
> > > > > > > 4) need to use in an xilinx spartan 3 device with 400K
> > > > > > > gates.
> >
> > > > > > > i know aboutprocessorsOpenRISC 1000, NIOS 2 and LEON 2,
> > > > > > > but not sure how good they are with regard to my
> > > > > > > requirements, specially the (2), (3) and (4) above.
> > > > > > > Please help.
> >
> > > > > > > in addition, i like to here about microblaze and its
> > > > > > > licensing fees structure
> >
> > > > > > A few points:
> > > > > > - Nios II and MicroBlaze aren't open source, but both are
> > > > > > very good.
> > > > > > - Is OpenRISC 1000 ok for commercial products?
> > > > > > - I doubt LEON 2 (and maybe OpenRISC 1000) can fit in "400K
> > > > > > gates"
> >
> > > > > > You could also consider YARI (http://yari.thorn.ws). It's a
> > > > > > bit weak in the documentation department though but has
> > > > > > great tools. The hardware debugger still work in progress,
> > > > > > but YARI has excellent simulation support.
> >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Tommy
> >
> > > > > thanks tommy.
> >
> > > > > why do you think OpenRISC 1000 is not suitable for commercial
> > > > > projects?
> >
> > > > > thanks.
> >
> > > > it doesnt fir s3-400 as a starter
> >
> > > > Antti
> >
> > > hi again,
> >
> > > i decided to go with LEON 2 processor, but i could not find a
> > > download location for it. Can some one point me to a link?
> >
> > > thanks
> >
> > MicroBlaze is nice and easy to use, but with s3-400 you won't have
> > much space left. Since the processor could not digest data in real
> > time, you probably need a frame buffer also, so bigger FPGA is
> > probably inevitable.
> > You might consider taking this imaging development kit for a
> > start:www.optomotive.si
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ales
>=20
> Hi Ales, thanks for the info. I will have a look in to your
> suggesstion as well.
>=20
> btw, i have decided to implement all algorithms in a normal PC first
> to find out processing power requirements. If requirements are too
> high and algorithms cannot be run inside s3-400 with required timing
> constraints, the whole project is kind of become useless.
>=20
> Assuming s3-400 is capable of delivering the throughput, what i need
> now is a processor (open source LGPL like) that fits inside this
> device without much of a problem leaving some resources for other
> stuff like USB core etc. This makes me to remove both OpenRISC and
> LEON from consideration. What are the potions i have now?
>=20
> I had a look in to YARI, and niktech, but not sure how much software
> development support (compilers, debuggers, etc) they have. I have also
> tried MIPS based processor as well. I need your support to chose the
> best one!
>=20
> thanks

What are you actually looking for the processor to do?  If you're
implementing most of your algorithm in hardware (i.e., the point of an
FPGA), then you should be able to get by with a fairly minimal
softcore like a Picoblaze.  The tool support is, well at least they're
there.  It's rock stable, free for practically any use in a Xilinx
chip, and coding in assembly builds character.  More to the point, you
could put several of them in an S3-400 with room to spare.

--=20
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology
Email address is currently out of order