Spartan-6 Boards - Your Wish List

John Adair <g1@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
...
> There other easy to use parts coming as well. The Craignell2 family
> may expand with a larger pincount version assuming we don't have
> Spartan-6 based Craignell3 there before it. Craignell3 will fill the
> gaps better the Darnaw products and existing Craignell products.

+1 vote here for Spartan-6 based Craignell3 with a large DDR2 / DDR3
in say 80 pin version but still pluggable into 40 DIL sockets for
legacy applications...

Marko

On Aug 9, 5:44=A0am, John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
> Guys and Girls
>
> Your chance to have input to what we bring to market as Spartan-6
> products.
>
> We have several release candidates nearly ready now but we can still
> add or modify features and I am interested in features you would all
> like to have in these boards either based on things we hve done before
> in our product range or even new features you would like to see.
>
> So go ahead and let us know what you want.

I am sure a lot of audio types would like a daughter card with
reasonable I2S-connected ADC and DAC devices.

-a

Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> wrote:
< glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
 
<> I am not sure what you would need to do to get a school to
<> start using a board, but I believe it would be better than
<> learning only through simulation.
 
< We use the DARNAW1 board in a beginners course (implementation
< of a 16 bit minimal processor in a total time of about 12 hours).
< But you don't need a board for every student but only one for
< the class (downloading the bit file is just the final test).

The frosh classes that I had consisted of a one term lecture class
followed by a one term lab.  That was 30 years ago, so things might
have changed over time.  Even so, the lecture class followed 
(in the subsequent term) by a lab seems to work well.

The lecture demonstrations were done with TTL chips on little
boards with bannana jacks, allowing convenient wiring during
the lecture.  Sometimes a logic block would be constructed during
one lecture, and in the next it would be replaced by a single PC
board doing the same function.  I believe that even now, seeing
TTL logic blocks connected together is a good way to begin to
learn logic design.  

For the lab classes, we built circuits with TTL and solderless
breadboards, but that was 30 years ago.  Even so, I don't believe
that one FPGA board for a whole lab class is right.  Each lab
station (which may be a few students) should have its own board
for that group to play with.  Those don't need to be owned by
the student.

The board that I was suggesting could also work there, but the
suggestion was for a board that the student would own.  To build
a project and take it home.  The price has to be low enough for
a student to afford, but the board has to be good enough for some
real projects.

-- glen
 

On Aug 11, 1:47=A0pm, Andy Peters <goo...@latke.net> wrote:
> On Aug 9, 5:44=A0am, John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Guys and Girls
>
> > Your chance to have input to what we bring to market as Spartan-6
> > products.
>
> > We have several release candidates nearly ready now but we can still
> > add or modify features and I am interested in features you would all
> > like to have in these boards either based on things we hve done before
> > in our product range or even new features you would like to see.
>
> > So go ahead and let us know what you want.
>
> I am sure a lot of audio types would like a daughter card with
> reasonable I2S-connected ADC and DAC devices.
>
> -a

Not to rain on John's parade, but Digilent, Inc. sells inexpensive
FPGA boards, plus (I believe) ADC and DAC add on modules.  I don't
know if they use the latest Xilinx chips or not.  I've been happy with
the Spartan-3 & 3E boards that I've bought from them.
-Dave Pollum

glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

>Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> wrote:
>< glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> 
><> I am not sure what you would need to do to get a school to
><> start using a board, but I believe it would be better than
><> learning only through simulation.
> 
>< We use the DARNAW1 board in a beginners course (implementation
>< of a 16 bit minimal processor in a total time of about 12 hours).
>< But you don't need a board for every student but only one for
>< the class (downloading the bit file is just the final test).
>
>The frosh classes that I had consisted of a one term lecture class
>followed by a one term lab.  That was 30 years ago, so things might
>have changed over time.  Even so, the lecture class followed 
>(in the subsequent term) by a lab seems to work well.

30 years ago... All that is replaced with a course in Java programming
by now. IIRC we had to do a very boring I/O board for an ancient VME
system and program a driver for it in 68000 assembly but that is
already 12 years ago.

-- 
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
                     "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!"
--------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure yet wether we will go down to the 40 pin with Craignell3.
We already have both Craignell1 and Craignell2 serving this size.
Craignell2 is a very good design. We put a lot of knowledge gained
from Craignell1 and we can go a 512Mbit SDRAM as an option for memory
and already have a 128Mbit Flash on there. All the Craignell3 would
bring is a little bigger memory and maybe some more logic. It would be
viable but we would need to find some market reason. However I won't
rule it out as a possibility. We have some interesting concept ideas
that we have as yet not talked about for the Craignell families. One
of those ideas is a possible good reason to do a 40 pin Craignell3 and
maybe even smaller pinouts.

Doing an oversize cut down we actually done that with the existing
parts for selected customer requirements so in practise it can be
done.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 11 Aug, 18:12, Marko Zec <z...@fer.hr> wrote:
> John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > There other easy to use parts coming as well. The Craignell2 family
> > may expand with a larger pincount version assuming we don't have
> > Spartan-6 based Craignell3 there before it. Craignell3 will fill the
> > gaps better the Darnaw products and existing Craignell products.
>
> +1 vote here for Spartan-6 based Craignell3 with a large DDR2 / DDR3
> in say 80 pin version but still pluggable into 40 DIL sockets for
> legacy applications...
>
> Marko

I'll have a look at what our current stuff does cover in this area
but's low cost to add to a board and that could be done without budget
breaking.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 11 Aug, 18:47, Andy Peters <goo...@latke.net> wrote:
> On Aug 9, 5:44=A0am, John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Guys and Girls
>
> > Your chance to have input to what we bring to market as Spartan-6
> > products.
>
> > We have several release candidates nearly ready now but we can still
> > add or modify features and I am interested in features you would all
> > like to have in these boards either based on things we hve done before
> > in our product range or even new features you would like to see.
>
> > So go ahead and let us know what you want.
>
> I am sure a lot of audio types would like a daughter card with
> reasonable I2S-connected ADC and DAC devices.
>
> -a

And indeed many people buy their boards. They are reasonable products
but if you want to go further to a real product I don't think they are
interested in that. That's one of the big differences with us as a
commercial company and commercial targets and aims. Spartan-3 products
will remain suitable targets for many people for some time to come and
I expect we probably still be building Spartan-3 boards still in 5 to
10 years time even if we are doing Spartan-10 by then too.

I could talk also about their designs and make comments how we are
better and a pile of other things like that but that's not the point
of this post. I'm also not into negative posting as such and anyway
they are just one of many compeditors I need to not worry about. This
also should only be a postive post to get feedback on how Enterpoint
makes better products for the market. Our products already do the
talking for us in many cases but I'm not complacent that we can't
improve or do it better. Not every development board will suit every
customer but there is a trick to providing a solution that's useful in
some way.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd.

On 11 Aug, 19:22, Dave Pollum <vze24...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Aug 11, 1:47=A0pm, Andy Peters <goo...@latke.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 5:44=A0am, John Adair <g...@enterpoint.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Guys and Girls
>
> > > Your chance to have input to what we bring to market as Spartan-6
> > > products.
>
> > > We have several release candidates nearly ready now but we can still
> > > add or modify features and I am interested in features you would all
> > > like to have in these boards either based on things we hve done befor=
e
> > > in our product range or even new features you would like to see.
>
> > > So go ahead and let us know what you want.
>
> > I am sure a lot of audio types would like a daughter card with
> > reasonable I2S-connected ADC and DAC devices.
>
> > -a
>
> Not to rain on John's parade, but Digilent, Inc. sells inexpensive
> FPGA boards, plus (I believe) ADC and DAC add on modules. =A0I don't
> know if they use the latest Xilinx chips or not. =A0I've been happy with
> the Spartan-3 & 3E boards that I've bought from them.
> -Dave Pollum

A functional copy of an old homecomputer like Apple ][ or C64 could motivate 
students mostly to learn logic design, i think.
Especially because of it's history and perfekt technical explanations (e.g. 
inside APPLE ][)
Don't know if there are any legal issues here.

The Apple ][ design could be partitioned into several legacy chips like DRAM 
or the 6502 and Z80 (which can be replaced by cores also) and small FPGA 
boards, e.g. representing functional units like a graphics, Z80 add-on, or 
floppy controller.
Some small units also could be alternatively build with TTL stuff only.

A digital clock for the first logic design lessons is a nice idea.
Could be done with the Xilinx Starter kits Spartan3E or Spartan 3A/AN with 2 
of our 3digit led display modules side by side:
http://www.oho-elektronik.de/pics/UM_OHO_DY1.pdf

MIKE

-- 
www.oho-elektronik.de
OHO-Elektronik
Michael Randelzhofer
FPGA und CPLD Mini Module
Klein aber oho !
Kontakt:
Tel: 08131 339230
mr@oho-elektronik.de
Usst.ID: DE130097310

"M.Randelzhofer" <techseller@gmx.de> writes:
> A functional copy of an old homecomputer

Or better, have it ship pre-programmed to be a standalone web browser
- softcpu; drivers for vga, keyboard, mouse, ethernet; mini-OS,
browser.  Plug everything in and go, then learn how to do it yourself.