Can anyone tell me where to find out what Spartan6 and Virtex6 parts, packages, speed grades, and costs (small quantities) are or will be? I have a comparison charts from the Xilinx web site and I try to gleen availability from the Avnet website but this method seems like guess work. Thanks, Brad Smallridge AiVision
Xilinx Spartan6 Virtex6 Rollout
Started by ●March 16, 2010
Reply by ●March 16, 20102010-03-16
Brad, Xilinx provides all parts through authorized distributors. In North America, that is Avnet (as you have noted). I suggest you call them on the phone and request quotes and delivery. If they say 6 weeks, then it is as good as "in stock" but if it says 26 weeks that means the die are probably in die bank, and are not assembled into packages (yet). Austin
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:12:04 -0700, "Brad Smallridge" <bradsmallridge@dslextreme.com> wrote:> Can anyone tell me where to find out what >Spartan6 and Virtex6 parts, packages, speed >grades, and costs (small quantities) are or >will be? > I have a comparison charts from the Xilinx web >site and I try to gleen availability from the >Avnet website but this method seems like guess >work. > Thanks, > Brad Smallridge > AiVision >The parts are ready but the tools aren't. We're having ghastly timing problems and we aren't getting support. This is apparently chronic with S6. Plus, they pulled the plug on our distributor, NuHorizons, so we no longer have them putting pressure on Xilinx for support. I'd stick with S3 until they get all this fixed. John
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Mar 17, 6:17=A0am, John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:12:04 -0700, "Brad Smallridge" > > <bradsmallri...@dslextreme.com> wrote: > > Can anyone tell me where to find out what > >Spartan6 and Virtex6 parts, packages, speed > >grades, and costs (small quantities) are or > >will be? > > I have a comparison charts from the Xilinx web > >site and I try to gleen availability from the > >Avnet website but this method seems like guess > >work. > > Thanks, > > Brad Smallridge > > AiVision > > The parts are ready but the tools aren't. We're having ghastly timing > problems and we aren't getting support. This is apparently chronic > with S6. Plus, they pulled the plug on our distributor, NuHorizons, so > we no longer have them putting pressure on Xilinx for support. > > I'd stick with S3 until they get all this fixed. > > Johnhi John it seems Xilinx is good on the road i predicted: I think some years ago I said that Xilinx products will be unusable because their software will become unusable when they hit 45nm technology. Antti
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message news:rnl0q5d1in9rnqhufimeij4jur878p750o@4ax.com...> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:12:04 -0700, "Brad Smallridge" > <bradsmallridge@dslextreme.com> wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me where to find out what >>Spartan6 and Virtex6 parts, packages, speed >>grades, and costs (small quantities) are or >>will be? >> I have a comparison charts from the Xilinx web >>site and I try to gleen availability from the >>Avnet website but this method seems like guess >>work. >> Thanks, >> Brad Smallridge >> AiVision >> > > The parts are ready but the tools aren't. We're having ghastly timing > problems and we aren't getting support.There might be some fixes in ISE 11.5 which was release yesterday. From the website: "11.5 includes important updates and supports production devices for the Virtex-6 and Spartan-6 families. However, several workarounds may be required for Virtex-6 and some Spartan-6 customers using 11.5. Please review Answer Record 32147 before you upgrade to 11.5. These workarounds will be addressed in 12.1, scheduled for May 2010. Designers targeting families other than Virtex-6 or Spartan-6 do not need to install 11.5. To ensure that ISE Design Suite functions properly, it is essential that all 11.5 updates are applied together." Hans www.ht-lab.com This is apparently chronic> with S6. Plus, they pulled the plug on our distributor, NuHorizons, so > we no longer have them putting pressure on Xilinx for support. > > I'd stick with S3 until they get all this fixed. > > John >
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:13:52 -0700 (PDT), Antti <antti.lukats@googlemail.com> wrote:>On Mar 17, 6:17�am, John Larkin ><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:12:04 -0700, "Brad Smallridge" >> >> <bradsmallri...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >> > Can anyone tell me where to find out what >> >Spartan6 and Virtex6 parts, packages, speed >> >grades, and costs (small quantities) are or >> >will be? >> > I have a comparison charts from the Xilinx web >> >site and I try to gleen availability from the >> >Avnet website but this method seems like guess >> >work. >> > Thanks, >> > Brad Smallridge >> > AiVision >> >> The parts are ready but the tools aren't. We're having ghastly timing >> problems and we aren't getting support. This is apparently chronic >> with S6. Plus, they pulled the plug on our distributor, NuHorizons, so >> we no longer have them putting pressure on Xilinx for support. >> >> I'd stick with S3 until they get all this fixed. >> >> John > >hi John > >it seems Xilinx is good on the road i predicted: > >I think some years ago I said that Xilinx products will be unusable >because their software will become unusable when they hit 45nm >technology. > >AnttiTheir software has been spinning out of control for years. I've seen other big software projects like this. Once that pattern is established, it's nearly impossible to fix. What's special about 45 nm? Is it just the sheer increase in chip complexity that breaks the tools? The development software just sees CLBs. The worst problem we're having now is with the hard-core DRAM controller. The architecture is essentially unmanagable, and the tools throw timing errors even at low clock rates, or just refuse to compile. We've had cases open on this for months (we got very early S6/45 units) and the silence is deafening. I'm sure they'll patch it up eventually. The precise quantization of "eventually" will determine if we still have a customer and whether 2 man-years of work will be a total loss. John
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:37:19 -0000 "HT-Lab" <hans64@ht-lab.com> wrote:> [snip] > > There might be some fixes in ISE 11.5 which was release yesterday. > From the website: > > "11.5 includes important updates and supports production devices for > the Virtex-6 and Spartan-6 families. However, several workarounds may > be required for Virtex-6 and some Spartan-6 customers using 11.5. > Please review Answer Record 32147 before you upgrade to 11.5. These > workarounds will be addressed in 12.1, scheduled for May 2010. > Designers targeting families other than Virtex-6 or Spartan-6 do not > need to install 11.5. To ensure that ISE Design Suite functions > properly, it is essential that all 11.5 updates are applied together." >There's an 11.5 now? But I just installed 11.4 a couple of months ago. And they're swearing up and down that 12.1 will be out in April. It's like this never-ending cycle of two steps forward, one step back, and one big jump 30 meters sideways with a double twist. -- Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology Email address is currently out of order
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
Re: bashing Xilinx software ... S6 was designed for cost (low) and power (low). We surveyed customers, and asked them what they wanted. And, we listened to them. Unfortunately, we have trained customers since the first Spartan device, that Spartan of the next node, could be used to replace a Virtex of the previous node... While that may have sometimes been true, S6 WAS NOT designed to cannibalize V5 sockets, and is designed to meet better price, and power points than Spartan 3, 3A, 3E. So, yes, the software will work very very hard to meet an unrealistic expectation of timing. And it might fail in the larger S6 parts to meet said unrealistic goals. That said, the software has actually improved with every release (in my opinion, as an actual user). Does the software have to improve further: yes, it does. You can always do a better job with software. But, I would always choose the latest software, and the latest hardware for any new project: all the attention is on it, the price curve will be the steepest (price will fall faster), and it will have the best support. Come on folks, this used to be a real forum, with useful information. Lately, this is like an old folks home, with everyone complaining about their ailments.... Did Xilinx, by creating their own user forums, completely kill c.a.f? If it goes on like this much longer, I will delete my link to it .... no one even bothers to email google to get rid of the spam here! (As a test, I emailed google, and they removed the spam I noted in the email to them -- the "report spam" button does nothing) Austin
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Mar 17, 2:02=A0pm, austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:> Re: bashing Xilinx software ... > > S6 was designed for cost (low) and power (low). > > We surveyed customers, and asked them what they wanted. > > And, we listened to them. > > Unfortunately, we have trained customers since the first Spartan > device, that Spartan of the next node, could be used to replace a > Virtex of the previous node... > > While that may have sometimes been true, S6 WAS NOT designed to > cannibalize V5 sockets, and is designed to meet better price, and > power points than Spartan 3, 3A, 3E. > > So, yes, the software will work very very hard to meet an unrealistic > expectation of timing. =A0And it might fail in the larger S6 parts to > meet said unrealistic goals. > > That said, the software has actually improved with every release (in > my opinion, as an actual user). > > Does the software have to improve further: =A0yes, it does. =A0You can > always do a better job with software. > > But, I would always choose the latest software, and the latest > hardware for any new project: =A0all the attention is on it, the price > curve will be the steepest (price will fall faster), and it will have > the best support. > > Come on folks, this used to be a real forum, with useful information. > > Lately, this is like an old folks home, with everyone complaining > about their ailments.... > > Did Xilinx, by creating their own user forums, completely kill c.a.f? > If it goes on like this much longer, I will delete my link to it .... > no one even bothers to email google to get rid of the spam here! (As a > test, I emailed google, and they removed the spam I noted in the email > to them -- the "report spam" button does nothing) > > AustinRight on, Austin ! Spartan is for low cost and low power, do not complain about the performance Virtex is for features and performance, do not complain about the price. Peter Alfke, from his "old folks home" (really my own living room)
Reply by ●March 17, 20102010-03-17
On Mar 18, 10:02=A0am, austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote:> > But, I would always choose the latest software, and the latest > hardware for any new project: =A0all the attention is on it, the price > curve will be the steepest (price will fall faster), and it will have > the best support.Really ? That claim rather stretches credibility. Designers should prudently choose the latest STABLE software release, and the newest STOCKED products ( and even that assumes the claims of lower price really ARE absolute, and not marketing spin of lowest price per bit, or mm2, or Mhz, or whatever...) There are quite a few examples where the claims of "lowest-cost" are creative at best, and cannot be banked. (ie they fail any absolute test) Sounds like John would be only too happy to 'choose the latest STABLE software release' to me.... As for "S6 ... is designed to meet better price, and power points than Spartan 3, 3A, 3E.", right now, the smallest S6 showing is BGA324 $33.14 - you might like to re-check how many 'older' parts, have better price points! I'm looking at a product right now, that has been 'released' for ~18 months, and still the 'greenness' shows in the docs, and software. The final decision on if we can risk that, has not yet been made. The 'latest' usually carries an implementation cost. -jg
