license_rant_master <none@nowhere.net> writes:

> I am an ASIC engineer who frequently 'takes work home' with me.
> Recently, I began using ssh to remotely login to our company's
> servers to run some Verilog/VHDL simulations.  Launching
> sims (from the UNIX command line) is fairly easy and painless,
> but any kind of interactive (GUI) operations are pitifully
> slow over an WAN/internet connection.  In the past, I
> haven't needed to do much more than check on running jobs,
> restart them, then logout.  Now, I find the need to do some
> interactive debugging work (waveform viewing, code editing,
> etc.)

Since you are using UNIX-based hosts, you might want to consider
looking into NX (http://www.nomachine.com). I have used it for the
exact same purpose for years (it wasn't actually called NX back
then).

For quite some time I had to use a connection going from the local
office in Boston,MA to Milpitas,CA and back to Boston. No issues here.

Hope that helps,
Marcus

Hi Mike,

I assume when you say move around you mean taking it home? I just checked my 
Modelsim license and the 800m clause applies to any license, nodelocked or 
floating. However, I would say that as long as your Modelsim dongle is 
nodelocked, insured and you work for the company that paid for the license 
than I don't believe Mentor will complain about a license breach if you take 
it home. I can be 100% sure though since I don't work for Mentor but I 
assume they have more important things to do :-)

Regards,
Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

"MikeJ" <support@{nospam}fpgaarcade.com> wrote in message 
news:1114724727.23483.0@despina.uk.clara.net...
>I have a company modelsim dongle, which I have always assumed I can move
> around and use on any machine the dongle is currently plugged into. By
> definition I can only be using it in one place at a time ...
>
> Surely this is allowed ??
>
> /MikeJ
>
> p.s. sorry I mailed you Hans, hit the wrong button :)
>
> 

I have a company modelsim dongle, which I have always assumed I can move
around and use on any machine the dongle is currently plugged into. By
definition I can only be using it in one place at a time ...

Surely this is allowed ??

/MikeJ

p.s. sorry I mailed you Hans, hit the wrong button :)

Probably mentioned somewhere in this tread, but perhaps you can convince 
your company to convert one of the floating licenses to a dongle one? If you 
go down this road make sure the dongle is insured since the vendor might ask 
you to purchase the software again if you loose it. If the vendor is using 
Flexlm you might want to look into the lmborrow feature. I am not 100% sure 
how it works but it looks like you can take a license token away from the 
license server for a duration.

Hans.
www.ht-lab.com



"license_rant_master" <none@nowhere.net> wrote in message 
news:SGMEc.2916$486.1576@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
>I am an ASIC engineer who frequently 'takes work home' with me.
> Recently, I began using ssh to remotely login to our company's
> servers to run some Verilog/VHDL simulations.  Launching
> sims (from the UNIX command line) is fairly easy and painless,
> but any kind of interactive (GUI) operations are pitifully
> slow over an WAN/internet connection.  In the past, I
> haven't needed to do much more than check on running jobs,
> restart them, then logout.  Now, I find the need to do some
> interactive debugging work (waveform viewing, code editing,
> etc.)
>
> So I thought, ok, I'll just install Linux at home and check
> out a license remotely from the company.  The system
> administrator told me "NO!" this is forbidden, due to the license
> agreements of just about every EDA-tool vendor.  According to the
> language/legalese of the license-agreement, a license 'seat'
> is tied to a physical location called 'site.'
>
> There are minor differences among the 'site-radius', but the
> end-result is the same ... no executing the tool on hardware outside
> of the radius:
>
> Cadence : 1 mile radius within licensed machine-node
>           (Sysadmin told me this...didn't double-check myself.)
>
> Synopsys: 5 mile radius within licensed machine-node
>           (couldn't find the agreement, but found this on Solvnet.)
>
> Model/Mentor: 800 meter (0.5mi) radius within licensed machine-node
>           (Download the user's manual for any Modelsim product.)
>
> ...
>
> At this point, I think, well alright, most of these EDA tools
> are $100,000 USD and up, so it's reasonable for the vendor to impose these 
> terms.  EDA companies don't want 1 company buying a huge site-wide (100+) 
> licenses, then randomly 'renting' them out over the internet.
>
> I mentally used this analogy to convince myself this is ok:
> I buy broadband internet service for my household.
> It's "unlimited" for my household -- not my neightborhood or someone
> driving by on a WiFi laptop.  Fair enough...
>
> Since I can't use the company's tools on *my* home machine, I
> started investigating various low-cost Verilog simulators to run
> under Windows.  (I can't use Icarus because it fails to compile a
> lot of our company's Verilog RTL.)
>
> /RANT ON
>
> 1) Modelsim/PE "Personal Edition" -- *exact* same license agreement
>    as their premiere Modelsim/SE.
>
> "Mentor Graphics
> grants to you, subject to payment of appropriate license fees, a 
> nontransferable, nonexclusive license to use
> Software solely: (a) in machine-readable, object-code form; (b) for your 
> internal business purposes; and (c) on
> the computer hardware or at the site for which an applicable license fee 
> is paid, or as authorized by Mentor
> Graphics. A site is restricted to a one-half mile (800 meter) radius."
>
>    *RIDICULOUS*  If I were a design-consultant, and my laptop were
>    my primary compute platform, how am I supposed to comply with a
>    'site' radius?  By their language, I can't run Modelsim
>    if I drive more than 0.5mi from my home-residence/business?!?
>
> 2) ok, so next I move on to Cadence's "Verilog Desktop"
>
>    Wow, same story -- the language of their license agreement brings
>    me to the same conclusion.  Install on laptop -- automatic
>    non-compliance with their agreement (unless you 'lock down' the
>    laptop with a 1-mile chain.)  Funny how their salesman now use
>    x86-laptops for nearly *all* customer-site product demos?!?
>
> 3) I may investigate Verilogger Pro or Simucad, but I figure why bother.
>    I'll probably just end up getting angrier...
>
> ...
>
> /RANT OFF
>
> Any comments?
> What pisses me off the most, is those Cadence/Synopsys/Mentor "travelling 
> salesman."  They come to our company-site, armed with
> laptops and LCD-projectors -- then show off how a small x86-laptop
> now runs jobs faster than a low-end Sun/IBM RISC workstation.
> These EDAs need to be sued for false advertising.  At a minimum,
> someone needs to challenge their ridiculous license agreement
> for products aimed at 'personal' use.
>
> For now, I've simply told my supervisor 'project schedule slip.'
> And I've given up on doing real work at home (now mostly just
> catching on documentation and inline RTL-comments.)
> 

In article <40E4C9F9.38C71406@yahoo.com>, rickman  <john@bluepal.net> wrote:
>JJ wrote:
>> 
>> Ever hear of VPN?
>
>I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest.  If you mean he should run
>the programs on an office machine using interface software from home,
>that is what he wants to get away from.  If you are talking about
>checking out the license over the network, that is what is forbidden by
>the license.  
>
>What are you suggesting?  
>

But with VPN the license is still checked out only on the machine at 
work.  VPN only allows you to see your work desktop at home, so 
technically it's probably legal since the tool is not actually running on 
your home machine at all (your home machine only acts as a terminal).

Phil

In article <SGMEc.2916$486.1576@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>,
license_rant_master  <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>I am an ASIC engineer who frequently 'takes work home' with me.
>Recently, I began using ssh to remotely login to our company's
>servers to run some Verilog/VHDL simulations.  Launching
>sims (from the UNIX command line) is fairly easy and painless,
>but any kind of interactive (GUI) operations are pitifully
>slow over an WAN/internet connection.  In the past, I
>haven't needed to do much more than check on running jobs,
>restart them, then logout.  Now, I find the need to do some
>interactive debugging work (waveform viewing, code editing,
>etc.)

There are free waveform viewers (gtkwave).  Editing code seems like it 
could be done quite easily without using any vendor tools (gvim works 
great).

>
>Since I can't use the company's tools on *my* home machine, I
>started investigating various low-cost Verilog simulators to run
>under Windows.  (I can't use Icarus because it fails to compile a
>lot of our company's Verilog RTL.)

submit bugs to the Icarus developers.

>
>Any comments?
>What pisses me off the most, is those Cadence/Synopsys/Mentor 
>"travelling salesman."  They come to our company-site, armed with
>laptops and LCD-projectors -- then show off how a small x86-laptop
>now runs jobs faster than a low-end Sun/IBM RISC workstation.
>These EDAs need to be sued for false advertising.  At a minimum,
>someone needs to challenge their ridiculous license agreement
>for products aimed at 'personal' use.
>
>For now, I've simply told my supervisor 'project schedule slip.'
>And I've given up on doing real work at home (now mostly just
>catching on documentation and inline RTL-comments.)
>

The main courses of action that come to mind:
1) setup things so that you do not need to use a GUI to debug (lots of 
assertions & printing of values - but make it easy to remove them from 
code before synthesis).  If possible use open source waveform viewers 
like gtkwave.

2) help the open source tools to improve.  Icarus for Verilog is already 
quite good, but if you're seeing problems you should report them.  As I 
said above, submit bug reports.  The only way you're going to get around 
restrictive licenses is to use applications which are not bound by 
restrictive licenses (open source).  They may not always be ready for use 
at work, but they'll often be OK for work at home.

Phil

"Ziggy" <Ziggy@TheCentre.com> wrote in message news:XLMbe.25668$NU4.19867@attbi_s22...
> David wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:42:58 +0000, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> >
> >
> >>In comp.arch.fpga license_rant_master <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >>: I am an ASIC engineer who frequently 'takes work home' with me.
> >>: Recently, I began using ssh to remotely login to our company's
> >>: servers to run some Verilog/VHDL simulations.  Launching
> >>: sims (from the UNIX command line) is fairly easy and painless,
> >>: but any kind of interactive (GUI) operations are pitifully
> >>: slow over an WAN/internet connection.  In the past, I
> >>: haven't needed to do much more than check on running jobs,
> >>: restart them, then logout.  Now, I find the need to do some
> >>: interactive debugging work (waveform viewing, code editing,
> >>: etc.)
> >>
> >>Look at NX. It what LBX (Low Bandwidth X ) promised, but NX
> >>delivers. Probably not to easy to set yet, but worth a try.
> >>
> >
> >
> > It's easy enough to set up the server (either look at the commercial
> > version from www.nomachine.com, or google for "freenx" or "nxserver") on
> > linux, and clients are even easier (download free from nomachine).  It is
> > said to be usable over a modem connection - I have certainly found it
> > works well over ADSL for most work.  It's definitely faster than tightVnc
> > (which is also okay for many things - and works well for pretending you
> > are sitting at your office windows desktop).
> >
> >
> >
> >>Bye
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Too bad its not easy to setup a server in FreeBSD ( i know, totaly OT )
>
> Like others will most likely point out, something like TightVNC would
> support compression, and is even easier to setup then NX..

With SSH, He is actually half way there, just forward port 5900 and install VNC.

David wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:42:58 +0000, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
> 
> 
>>In comp.arch.fpga license_rant_master <none@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>: I am an ASIC engineer who frequently 'takes work home' with me.
>>: Recently, I began using ssh to remotely login to our company's
>>: servers to run some Verilog/VHDL simulations.  Launching
>>: sims (from the UNIX command line) is fairly easy and painless,
>>: but any kind of interactive (GUI) operations are pitifully
>>: slow over an WAN/internet connection.  In the past, I
>>: haven't needed to do much more than check on running jobs,
>>: restart them, then logout.  Now, I find the need to do some
>>: interactive debugging work (waveform viewing, code editing,
>>: etc.)
>>
>>Look at NX. It what LBX (Low Bandwidth X ) promised, but NX
>>delivers. Probably not to easy to set yet, but worth a try. 
>>
> 
> 
> It's easy enough to set up the server (either look at the commercial
> version from www.nomachine.com, or google for "freenx" or "nxserver") on
> linux, and clients are even easier (download free from nomachine).  It is
> said to be usable over a modem connection - I have certainly found it
> works well over ADSL for most work.  It's definitely faster than tightVnc
> (which is also okay for many things - and works well for pretending you
> are sitting at your office windows desktop).
> 
> 
> 
>>Bye
> 
> 
> 
> 
Too bad its not easy to setup a server in FreeBSD ( i know, totaly OT )

Like others will most likely point out, something like TightVNC would 
support compression, and is even easier to setup then NX..

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:43:00 GMT, Rene Tschaggelar <none@none.net> wrote:

>The whole is solved by a notebook being the work machine at
>the expense of reduced performance.
>
>But yes, the whole is a bit silly.

..and of course entirely unenforceable in practice, unless they insist you have a GPS receiver on
the machine....
How is anyone ever going to know where you physically are when you use it ?

 

license_rant_master wrote:

> (c) on
> the computer hardware or at the site for which an applicable license fee
> is paid, or as authorized by Mentor
> Graphics. A site is restricted to a one-half mile (800 meter) radius."
> 
>    *RIDICULOUS*  If I were a design-consultant, and my laptop were
>    my primary compute platform, how am I supposed to comply with a
>    'site' radius?  By their language, I can't run Modelsim
>    if I drive more than 0.5mi from my home-residence/business?!?

As someone fluent in Verilog you surely know the meaning of the word
"or", don't you?
So if you license it for a certain computer hardware you can take that
hardware werever you want in full complience with their license.


Seriously:
Your boss can call your distributor and ask them to extend the license
to the company site plus the workplace of one teleworker. This should be
no hassle.

If you purchase or download software at home (e.g. not signing a site
license contract) you perform a purchase instead of licensing the
software and the principle of first sale applies. The manufacturer has
no right to control who runs the software where, as long you there
allways is only a single copy. (Disclaimer: IANAL)

Kolja Sulimma