Jim Granville wrote:
> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> <snip>
> 
>> Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking 
>> for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source 
>> it would compile. 
> 
>  > I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I
>  > think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it.
> 
> Sounds close - at this point I would try something trivial like
> 8 NAND gates in a test file ( uses every pin ), and confirm you
> get what looks like a valid JED file.
> 
> 
>> AFAIK CUPL is a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite 
>> the source to CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat 
>> limited. I've written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another 
>> GAL-assembler called GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. 
>> Although I probably understand most of the code I'm really not so keen 
>> on translating it. The equipment using the FPLA also incorporates a 
>> serious amout of other PLD devices, mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all 
>> documented with Abel source code.
> 
> 
> CUPL was suggested, should you hit a brick wall with ABEL, right now it 
> sounds more like a speed-bump..... :)
> -jg
> 

Finally got the time to set up a box with DOS. Didn't help much though.
I guess you were right about the need for a licence key. It seems like 
it worked for smaller designs, perhaps for evaluation purposes.

Eirik

Eirik Seljelid wrote:
<snip>
> Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking 
> for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source it 
> would compile. 
 > I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I
 > think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it.

Sounds close - at this point I would try something trivial like
8 NAND gates in a test file ( uses every pin ), and confirm you
get what looks like a valid JED file.


> AFAIK CUPL is a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite the source to 
> CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat limited. I've 
> written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another GAL-assembler called 
> GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. Although I probably understand 
> most of the code I'm really not so keen on translating it. The equipment 
> using the FPLA also incorporates a serious amout of other PLD devices, 
> mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all documented with Abel source code.

CUPL was suggested, should you hit a brick wall with ABEL, right now it 
sounds more like a speed-bump..... :)
-jg

Jim Granville wrote:

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> mmock wrote:
>>
>>>> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>>>>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Eirik,
>>>
>>> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
>>> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
>> compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal 
>> error: out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of 
>> the source.
> 
> 
>  Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
> It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928 
> fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
>  CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
> -jg
> 
Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking 
for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source it 
would compile. I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I 
think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it. AFAIK CUPL is 
a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite the source to 
CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat limited. I've 
written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another GAL-assembler called 
GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. Although I probably understand 
most of the code I'm really not so keen on translating it. The equipment 
using the FPLA also incorporates a serious amout of other PLD devices, 
mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all documented with Abel source code.


Eirik

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

> mmock wrote:
> 
>>> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>>
>>>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>>>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>>
>>>
>> Eirik,
>>
>> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
>> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
>>
>> Mike
> 
> 
> Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
> compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error: 
> out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.

  Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928 
fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
  CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
-jg

Jim Granville wrote:

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
>> the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
>> organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
>> consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
>> newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
> 
> 
>  Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
> Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
> http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
> - in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
> with the 82S100/PLS100.
>  You could also try direct fuse editing :)
> -jg
> 
Thanks, but I've found and downloaded it when you gave me the name. 
Haven't tried it though, as disk 2 was missing and I later on found Abel 
on a web site.

Eirik

mmock wrote:
>>Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>
>>>considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
>>>of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>
> Eirik,
> 
> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
> 
> Mike

Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error: 
out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.

Eirik

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> > considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
> > of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
> 
Eirik,

Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?

Mike

Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
> the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
> organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
> consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
> newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
> of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

  Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
- in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
with the 82S100/PLS100.
  You could also try direct fuse editing :)
-jg

Jim Granville wrote:
> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>>
>> I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC�s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
>> Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for 
>> these chips anymore. 
> 
> 
> That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....
> 
> That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
> see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...
> 
>> Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio, does only support it's 
>> own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for small PLDS has been 
>> taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own PLD families. 
>> Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as freeware, 
>> opensource or similar?
> 
> 
>  Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source, 
> and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
> ( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)
> 
>  The Xilinx ABEL has a certain amount of inbuilt ability, and it looks 
> like, if you really want to, you can get PLA and BLIF files from the 
> current Xilinx ABEL flows.
> 
>  What you then need is the relevent Signetics PLS100 fitter, or you
> could look for the Signetics software - IIRC their SW called Amaze 
> supported the PLS100, and it had a successor called SLICE, but both
> are ancient.
> 
>  Or, you could look for a device similar to the PLS100, but still
> in production, such as the ICT  PA7536 or PA7540 ?
> 
>  ICT offer current software to support these devices.
> See http://www.anachip.com/eng/product/pld.php
> 
>  The 22V10 is still quite active (Atmel, ICT, Lattice), but has fewer 
> total pins than a PLS100.
> 
>  -jg
> 
> 
> 
> 

Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

Eirik

"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1qgRc.2273$zS6.270874@news02.tsnz.net...
> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC&#4294967295;s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
> > Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
> > these chips anymore.
>
> That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....
>
> That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
> see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...
>
> > Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio,
> > does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for
> > small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own
> > PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as
> > freeware, opensource or similar?
>
>   Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source,
> and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
> ( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)

I would design a small PCB for the new CPLD that would plug in to the old
device socket.

Leon