I suppose I should mention that consumer level products are often where
the ASICs lie.  In situations where there may only be 10s, 100s or
1000s of parts, FPGAs may be very common.  My work currently gets
manufactured in the 100s of millions and it contains a large analog
block.  It just simply isn't suited for FPGA.

I could see FPGAs being big in high end space (I think Cisco uses FPGAs
for its backbone class routers).  I could see them in government space.
 I could see them in prototypes (heck, our architects use them for
accellerating matlab tests).  I just can't see them making much inroads
into high volume consumer space.

The important detail to be taken from this though is that ASICs are
still very alive for very high volume work as well as high speed
(multi-GHz) and analog.

Best of luck to all of those students out there hunting.  There is an
amazing amout of interesting work to be done.  Also, pay attention in
your signal processing classes.  That is some really important stuff.
-Arlen

Gallen,

A different story that the one I have been hearing.

I am glad to hear there are still good ASIC jobs around (Xilinx has 
openings unfilled as well).

But, I still stand by my comment that FPGA jobs are more common that 
ASIC jobs:  in fact perhaps as much as 1000:1 more common.

Consider yourself very fortunate to be doing ASIC design.

Austin

gallen wrote:

> Austin, I have to disagree with you about most designs being done with
> fpgas and there being loads of jobs in the market.  I fairly recently
> graduated from school with a computer engineering degree.  I did a lot
> of FPGA work while I was in school using both Xilinx and Altera
> platform (as for the X vs. A debate, I'm agnostic, I find Xilinx's
> tools to be more complete, but I find Altera's GUI to be nicer).
> Despite doing all of that FPGA work I did not find a single job having
> anything to do with FPGAs.  However, I worked for an ASIC company that
> was not on your list and now I work for a different ASIC company.  I
> get the impression that ASICs are still very popular despite their
> rising NRE costs.
> 
> All that said, I do recommend looking at all the FPGA stuff you can.
> Regardless of whether you go into ASICs or FPGAs in your career, FPGA
> development will give you a *GREAT* background.  I might even go so far
> as to say that FPGA development will give you a better modern digital
> design background that most of the old-timer engineers have.
> 
> My experience has been that FPGAs teach all of the fundamentals:
> * basic logic design
> * static timing
> * hand optimization to meet timing
> A couple of things are skipped like:
> * electromigration
> * cross-talk
> * voltage-domain crossing
> 
> But really FPGAs offer most of what you need.  The really big thing
> that they do that many of the "old-timers" don't get is they force you
> to reduce the number of clock domains you have.  FPGAs have a very
> limited number of global clock nets.  As a result you learn that it's
> best to not generate a clock for every single flip flop that's driven
> or to put HUGE amounts of logic in a clock net or to do loads of async
> design.  This is a great thing to get used to since modern ASIC and
> FPGA flows do not adapt well to this.
> 
> I might also add that when you're looking at internships and first jobs
> that it's best not to expect to do exactly what you want.  You can ask
> around to all of your profs to see if they have contacts, but my
> experience has been that it is generally not the case.  My profs seemed
> to like to avoid FPGAs like the plague and generally thought that
> digital design was for the weak (or something since they did a pretty
> lousy job of teaching it in my opinion).
> 
> Good luck.  Also, don't be afraid to apply for jobs that you're
> under-qualified for.  A lot of companies put up requirements that are
> completely outlandish hoping for a miracle, but expecting much less.
> If a job says 5 years experience required.  Go ahead.  Apply for it!
> 
> -Arlen
>

To get a good idea of the type of applications that Cyclone II /Cyclone 
devices are used in check the following link:

http://www.altera.com/corporate/cust_successes/customer_showcase/view_product/csh-vproduct-cyclone.jsp

The use of these devices in an application is only limited by your 
imagination. Remember you can have your own NiosII processor running on 
these chips, to allow you greater flexibility and creativity. In a student 
competition sponsored by Altera, one of the winners implemented a biometric 
system running on a Cyclone chip using the UP3 board.

Happy experimentation,
Subroto Datta
Altera Corp.

"badgrant" <badgrant@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:V5idnQ62EdUrBuDeRVn_vA@giganews.com...
> hi, i'm grant, studying computer engineering in university of ottawa.
> i'm using altera cyclone II on up3 board with quartus II enviorment.
> how is it? is it leading in industry? what kind of job can i get when
> i'm done.
>
> guys, forgive me if i have tons of questions, coz i do care about my
> career while i know nothing about it right now. :p
>

Austin, I have to disagree with you about most designs being done with
fpgas and there being loads of jobs in the market.  I fairly recently
graduated from school with a computer engineering degree.  I did a lot
of FPGA work while I was in school using both Xilinx and Altera
platform (as for the X vs. A debate, I'm agnostic, I find Xilinx's
tools to be more complete, but I find Altera's GUI to be nicer).
Despite doing all of that FPGA work I did not find a single job having
anything to do with FPGAs.  However, I worked for an ASIC company that
was not on your list and now I work for a different ASIC company.  I
get the impression that ASICs are still very popular despite their
rising NRE costs.

All that said, I do recommend looking at all the FPGA stuff you can.
Regardless of whether you go into ASICs or FPGAs in your career, FPGA
development will give you a *GREAT* background.  I might even go so far
as to say that FPGA development will give you a better modern digital
design background that most of the old-timer engineers have.

My experience has been that FPGAs teach all of the fundamentals:
* basic logic design
* static timing
* hand optimization to meet timing
A couple of things are skipped like:
* electromigration
* cross-talk
* voltage-domain crossing

But really FPGAs offer most of what you need.  The really big thing
that they do that many of the "old-timers" don't get is they force you
to reduce the number of clock domains you have.  FPGAs have a very
limited number of global clock nets.  As a result you learn that it's
best to not generate a clock for every single flip flop that's driven
or to put HUGE amounts of logic in a clock net or to do loads of async
design.  This is a great thing to get used to since modern ASIC and
FPGA flows do not adapt well to this.

I might also add that when you're looking at internships and first jobs
that it's best not to expect to do exactly what you want.  You can ask
around to all of your profs to see if they have contacts, but my
experience has been that it is generally not the case.  My profs seemed
to like to avoid FPGAs like the plague and generally thought that
digital design was for the weak (or something since they did a pretty
lousy job of teaching it in my opinion).

Good luck.  Also, don't be afraid to apply for jobs that you're
under-qualified for.  A lot of companies put up requirements that are
completely outlandish hoping for a miracle, but expecting much less.
If a job says 5 years experience required.  Go ahead.  Apply for it!

-Arlen

Grant,

Just because you are learning with an Altera part doesn't mean you are 
forever relegated to working for, or with those parts your whole career 
(what a grim thought!).

Be sure to also check the Xilinx website for jobs, and to be generic on 
your resume (ie "worked with FPGAs to solve X problem", not "worked with 
Cyclone FPGA to solve X problem").  If the interviewer wants the details 
of which part from which manufacturer, then is the time to go into the 
gory details.

Sure, I'd prefer you used the Xilinx parts in your school, but once you 
understand FPGAs from one vendor, you are then "trained" for pretty much 
all FPGAs from all vendors.

Since virtually all designs today are done using FPGAs, I feel your 
career choice is a good one.  I kept myself busy (gainfully employed) 
for 11 years designing with FPGAs before I came to Xilinx and became 
part of the team that designs the FPGAs themselves.

If you had said that you were in an ASIC engineering program, and were 
looking for work designing ICs, I might have advised you differently. 
There are very few openings for IC design today:  pretty much only those 
who can afford it, like Xilinx, Intel, and TI.

Austin

badgrant wrote:

> hi, i'm grant, studying computer engineering in university of ottawa.
> i'm using altera cyclone II on up3 board with quartus II enviorment.
> how is it? is it leading in industry? what kind of job can i get when
> i'm done.
> 
> guys, forgive me if i have tons of questions, coz i do care about my
> career while i know nothing about it right now. :p
>

badgrant wrote:
> hi, i'm grant, studying computer engineering in university of ottawa.
> i'm using altera cyclone II on up3 board with quartus II enviorment.
> how is it? is it leading in industry? what kind of job can i get when
> i'm done.
>
> guys, forgive me if i have tons of questions, coz i do care about my
> career while i know nothing about it right now. :p

Welcome to the fpga world Grant!

Your two best sources for this type of information will be:

             http://www.altera.com/literature/lit-cyc2.jsp
             http://www.google.com

Talk to your college tutors about local companies doing Fpga
there in Ottawa, they'll be able to get you in touch with people using
these devices in industry. That'll give you a feel for what it's all
about.

Alan

badgrant wrote:
> hi, i'm grant, studying computer engineering in university of ottawa.
> i'm using altera cyclone II on up3 board with quartus II enviorment.
> how is it? is it leading in industry? what kind of job can i get when
> i'm done.
>
> guys, forgive me if i have tons of questions, coz i do care about my
> career while i know nothing about it right now. :p

Welcome to the fpga world Grant!

Your two best sources for this type of information will be:

             http://www.altera.com/literature/lit-cyc2.jsp
             http://www.google.com

Talk to your college tutors about local companies doing Fpga
there in Ottawa, they'll be able to get you in touch with people using
these devices in industry. That'll give you a feel for what it's all
about.

Alan