On Mar 4, 4:47 am, Martin Thompson <martin.j.thomp...@trw.com> wrote:
> Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> writes:
> > 3) Lattice ECP2 have non-volatile AES key, making them best candidate
> > if design security/theft is of concern, also the design migration from
> > Xilinx to Lattice is much much more easier then Xilinx to Actel
>
> If it's non-volatile, is it not "relatively easy" to extract the key
> from the chip by invasive methods?  I say "relatively", compared to
> the volatile keys in a virtex device - still not a trivial task :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
> --
> martin.j.thomp...@trw.com
> TRW Conekt - Consultancy in Engineering, Knowledge and Technologyhttp://www.conekt.net/electronics.html

I don't think design security is the issue if the OP's
original system had an external PROM, whether or not it
was re-programmable.  Preventing inadvertent re-programming
can be accomplished at the board level as noted, but if
the device is delivered as a chip it is not as simple.
I've seen microcontrollers programmed and sold as
application-specific parts.  Often the data sheet for
the programmed part does not make it clear where the
part came from, and the chip is re-marked.  In this
sort of scheme, you could always call out the JTAG
pins as grounds...

What is the actual application?

Regards,
Gabor

Antti <Antti.Lukats@googlemail.com> writes:

> 3) Lattice ECP2 have non-volatile AES key, making them best candidate
> if design security/theft is of concern, also the design migration from
> Xilinx to Lattice is much much more easier then Xilinx to Actel

If it's non-volatile, is it not "relatively easy" to extract the key
from the chip by invasive methods?  I say "relatively", compared to
the volatile keys in a virtex device - still not a trivial task :-)

Cheers,
Martin

-- 
martin.j.thompson@trw.com 
TRW Conekt - Consultancy in Engineering, Knowledge and Technology
http://www.conekt.net/electronics.html

On 3 Mrz., 11:54, Bert <bert.maar...@nl.thalesgroup.com> wrote:
> On 3 mrt, 07:27, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 3 Mrz., 05:48, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 29, 2:34 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On 29 Feb., 09:59, waltherz <walther.za...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > > > ofcourse u can. just ground them!
>
> > > > > j...@amontec.com schrieb:
>
> > > > > > On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > > > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > > > > > > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > > > > > > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Goli
>
> > > > > > You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> > > > > > and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your board
> > > > > > application ?
> > > > > > One Time Programmable = Not Upgradeable System !
>
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > > >  http://www.amontec.com
>
> > > > that doesnt prevent the JTAG being used if the chip is desoldered...
> > > > so it really isnt disabling the JTAG just making it harder to access
>
> > > > lso when the S3AN are to be programmed before sending to assembly fab?
>
> > > > Antti
>
> > > I do agree that there are ways on board with which you can make it
> > > very difficult for other people to use JTAG. But I was wondering if
> > > there is any solution to make the FPGAs as OTP (One time
> > > Programmable). I think for Spartan XL FPGAs we used to get OTP Proms.
> > > So was wondering if there is any similar solution for Spartan3AN.
>
> > > --
> > > Goli
>
> > the internal FLASH of S3AN does have OTP write protect fuse.
> > so if you set that protection then the S3AN internal memory comes read
> > only
> > but it will not prevent configuration by other means
>
> > Antti- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Hi,
>
> If design security is an issue consider Actel iso. Xilinx Spartan or
> other Xilinx devices with AES protection ....
>
> Bert.

Bert,

1) Design change from Xilinx to Actel may cause many man-months of
struggle.
2) Field updates of Actel FPGA are only secure for non M7/M1 devices.
Any design that updates on field Actel M7/M1 silicon has design theft
security equal to NIL VOID ZERO
3) Lattice ECP2 have non-volatile AES key, making them best candidate
if design security/theft is of concern, also the design migration from
Xilinx to Lattice is much much more easier then Xilinx to Actel

Antti

On 3 mrt, 07:27, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 3 Mrz., 05:48, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 29, 2:34 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On 29 Feb., 09:59, waltherz <walther.za...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > > ofcourse u can. just ground them!
>
> > > > j...@amontec.com schrieb:
>
> > > > > On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > > > > > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > > > > > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Goli
>
> > > > > You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> > > > > and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your boa=
rd
> > > > > application ?
> > > > > One Time Programmable =3D Not Upgradeable System !
>
> > > > > Larry
> > > > > =A0http://www.amontec.com
>
> > > that doesnt prevent the JTAG being used if the chip is desoldered...
> > > so it really isnt disabling the JTAG just making it harder to access
>
> > > lso when the S3AN are to be programmed before sending to assembly fab?=

>
> > > Antti
>
> > I do agree that there are ways on board with which you can make it
> > very difficult for other people to use JTAG. But I was wondering if
> > there is any solution to make the FPGAs as OTP (One time
> > Programmable). I think for Spartan XL FPGAs we used to get OTP Proms.
> > So was wondering if there is any similar solution for Spartan3AN.
>
> > --
> > Goli
>
> the internal FLASH of S3AN does have OTP write protect fuse.
> so if you set that protection then the S3AN internal memory comes read
> only
> but it will not prevent configuration by other means
>
> Antti- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Hi,

If design security is an issue consider Actel iso. Xilinx Spartan or
other Xilinx devices with AES protection ....

Bert.

On 3 Mrz., 05:48, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 29, 2:34 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 29 Feb., 09:59, waltherz <walther.za...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > ofcourse u can. just ground them!
>
> > > j...@amontec.com schrieb:
>
> > > > On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
>
> > > > > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > > > > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > > > > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Goli
>
> > > > You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> > > > and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your board
> > > > application ?
> > > > One Time Programmable = Not Upgradeable System !
>
> > > > Larry
> > > >  http://www.amontec.com
>
> > that doesnt prevent the JTAG being used if the chip is desoldered...
> > so it really isnt disabling the JTAG just making it harder to access
>
> > lso when the S3AN are to be programmed before sending to assembly fab?
>
> > Antti
>
> I do agree that there are ways on board with which you can make it
> very difficult for other people to use JTAG. But I was wondering if
> there is any solution to make the FPGAs as OTP (One time
> Programmable). I think for Spartan XL FPGAs we used to get OTP Proms.
> So was wondering if there is any similar solution for Spartan3AN.
>
> --
> Goli

the internal FLASH of S3AN does have OTP write protect fuse.
so if you set that protection then the S3AN internal memory comes read
only
but it will not prevent configuration by other means

Antti

On Feb 29, 2:34 pm, Antti <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 29 Feb., 09:59, waltherz <walther.za...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ofcourse u can. just ground them!
>
> > j...@amontec.com schrieb:
>
> > > On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
>
> > > > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > > > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > > > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
>
> > > > --
> > > > Goli
>
> > > You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> > > and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your board
> > > application ?
> > > One Time Programmable = Not Upgradeable System !
>
> > > Larry
> > >  http://www.amontec.com
>
> that doesnt prevent the JTAG being used if the chip is desoldered...
> so it really isnt disabling the JTAG just making it harder to access
>
> lso when the S3AN are to be programmed before sending to assembly fab?
>
> Antti

I do agree that there are ways on board with which you can make it
very difficult for other people to use JTAG. But I was wondering if
there is any solution to make the FPGAs as OTP (One time
Programmable). I think for Spartan XL FPGAs we used to get OTP Proms.
So was wondering if there is any similar solution for Spartan3AN.

--
Goli

On 29 Feb., 09:59, waltherz <walther.za...@gmx.de> wrote:
> ofcourse u can. just ground them!
>
> j...@amontec.com schrieb:
>
> > On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Hi,
>
> > > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
>
> > > --
> > > Goli
>
> > You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> > and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your board
> > application ?
> > One Time Programmable = Not Upgradeable System !
>
> > Larry
> >  http://www.amontec.com

that doesnt prevent the JTAG being used if the chip is desoldered...
so it really isnt disabling the JTAG just making it harder to access

lso when the S3AN are to be programmed before sending to assembly fab?


Antti

ofcourse u can. just ground them!

j...@amontec.com schrieb:
> On Feb 29, 4:52 am, Goli <tog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We want to make Spartan3AN as One Time Programmable. We want to
> > program it once and then disable JTAG.
> > Is it possible to do that? How can we do that?
> >
> > --
> > Goli
>
> You cannot disable the JTAG !
>
> and why do you want to remove the powerful JTAG link from your board
> application ?
> One Time Programmable = Not Upgradeable System !
>
> Larry
>  http://www.amontec.com