> But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
The package is probably a little more expensive. Qualification and
testing cost a bit more. There's most likely a royalty to the SERDES
IP provider (unless it's Altera's own). Besides from that I can't see
why they should be more expensive. A PCIe based networking card can be
purchased for $10, so the ASIC on the board must be dirt cheap. So the
additional cost can't be that high.
The market is currently willing to pay a bit more for high speed
serial interfaces, but soon people will expect them in FPGA's like
they now do with LVDS interfaces.
Petter
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Reply by gabor●April 14, 20092009-04-14
Gabor
Regards'
Ummm... Since we're on a top-posting roll,
I thought to point out the the original
post by Petter was not content-free. He
was (in a way) asking for a link to the
Altera Arria II GX information.
Perhaps you thought "URL?" was some sort
of caveman-like grunt?
On Apr 14, 3:33=A0pm, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the appropriate way to reply to that...
>
> Rick
>
> On Apr 14, 11:19=A0am, MadHatt...@myself.com wrote:
>
> > Yet another content-free post with abrasive comments about posting
> > style.
>
> > Way to go, Petter!
>
> > On Apr 14, 12:35 am, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
> > > Petter
> > > --
> > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > A: Top-posting.
> > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
>
> > > URL?
>
> > > acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> writes:
> > > > (with Arria II recently announced)
>
>
Reply by Antt...@googlemail.com●April 14, 20092009-04-14
On Apr 14, 10:31=A0pm, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 7:46=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
>
>
>
> <Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 2:08=A0pm, acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> wrote:
>
> > > On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
> > > > will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 co=
sts
> > > > less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
>
> > > The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
> > > sensitive applications.
> > > "Arria=AE II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
> > > transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
> > > FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
> > > includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
> > > (DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
> > > provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
> > > your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
> > > improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
> > > faster."http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-g=
x/aiigx-...
>
> > > But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
>
> > > Andreas
>
> > well at EW2009 there was a guy who claimed he got 10$ pricing for
> > smallest Arria II (50k pcs)
> > that is well below Lattice price what would be 17$ (1KLUT/1$)
>
> I don't follow. =A0I am getting the smallest Lattice XP part at below
> $10 qty 100. =A0How is the Arria a better price? =A0It may be more gates,
> but who cares if you don't need them? =A0I don't price chips by the LUT
> or 1KLUT. =A0I price them by the socket that will hold my design.
>
> Rick
Rick
the price was for smallest ECP3 what is 17KLUT, and per L pricing
yields to 17$
you do not get 17KLUT lattice device in 100 pcs under 10$
not yet
Antti
Reply by rickman●April 14, 20092009-04-14
This is the appropriate way to reply to that...
Rick
On Apr 14, 11:19=A0am, MadHatt...@myself.com wrote:
> Yet another content-free post with abrasive comments about posting
> style.
>
> Way to go, Petter!
>
> On Apr 14, 12:35 am, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Petter
> > --
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
>
> > URL?
>
> > acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> writes:
> > > (with Arria II recently announced)
>
Reply by rickman●April 14, 20092009-04-14
On Apr 14, 7:46=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
<Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2:08=A0pm, acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
> > > Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
> > > will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 cost=
s
> > > less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
>
> > The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
> > sensitive applications.
> > "Arria=AE II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
> > transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
> > FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
> > includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
> > (DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
> > provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
> > your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
> > improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
> > faster."http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-gx/=
aiigx-...
>
> > But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
>
> > Andreas
>
> well at EW2009 there was a guy who claimed he got 10$ pricing for
> smallest Arria II (50k pcs)
> that is well below Lattice price what would be 17$ (1KLUT/1$)
I don't follow. I am getting the smallest Lattice XP part at below
$10 qty 100. How is the Arria a better price? It may be more gates,
but who cares if you don't need them? I don't price chips by the LUT
or 1KLUT. I price them by the socket that will hold my design.
Rick
Reply by ●April 14, 20092009-04-14
Yet another content-free post with abrasive comments about posting
style.
Way to go, Petter!
On Apr 14, 12:35 am, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
> acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> writes:
> > (with Arria II recently announced)
>
> URL?
>
> Petter
> --
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Reply by gabor●April 14, 20092009-04-14
On Apr 14, 7:46=A0am, "Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com"
<Antti.Luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2:08=A0pm, acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
> > > Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
> > > will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 cost=
s
> > > less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
>
> > The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
> > sensitive applications.
> > "Arria=AE II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
> > transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
> > FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
> > includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
> > (DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
> > provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
> > your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
> > improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
> > faster."http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-gx/=
aiigx-...
>
> > But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
>
> > Andreas
>
> well at EW2009 there was a guy who claimed he got 10$ pricing for
> smallest Arria II (50k pcs)
> that is well below Lattice price what would be 17$ (1KLUT/1$)
>
> Antti
Which Lattice? ECP2M or ECP3?
Regards,
Gabor
Reply by David Brown●April 14, 20092009-04-14
acd wrote:
> On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>> Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
>> will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 costs
>> less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
>
> The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
> sensitive applications.
> "Arria� II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
> transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
> FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
> includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
> (DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
> provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
> your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
> improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
> faster."
> http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-gx/aiigx-index.jsp
>
> But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
>
> Andreas
My understanding is that the Arria are a bit more expensive than
Cyclones, but much cheaper than Stratix devices. The two things that
make them more expensive (but worth more) are the high speed links and
the faster logic (they use Stratix-style ALMs rather than Cyclone-style
LEs. So if you need fast links, they are "low-cost". If not, they are
not as low cost as the Cyclones. But maybe that will change with the
Arria II and future families.
Reply by Antt...@googlemail.com●April 14, 20092009-04-14
On Apr 14, 2:08=A0pm, acd <acd4use...@lycos.de> wrote:
> On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
>
> > Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
> > will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 costs
> > less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
>
> The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
> sensitive applications.
> "Arria=AE II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
> transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
> FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
> includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
> (DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
> provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
> your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
> improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
> faster."http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-gx/ai=
igx-...
>
> But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
>
> Andreas
well at EW2009 there was a guy who claimed he got 10$ pricing for
smallest Arria II (50k pcs)
that is well below Lattice price what would be 17$ (1KLUT/1$)
Antti
Reply by acd●April 14, 20092009-04-14
On 14 Apr., 13:02, Petter Gustad <newsmailco...@gustad.com> wrote:
> Are there any press releases etc. which indicates that the Arria II
> will be competing with Cyclone III in price, e.g. that a 2AGX125 costs
> less than (or the same as) an EP3C120?
The description of the Arria products states that they target cost-
sensitive applications.
"Arria=AE II GX FPGAs are the lowest power FPGAs with up to 3.75-Gbps
transceivers. Designed for cost-sensitive applications, Arria II GX
FPGAs are based on a 40-nm, full-featured FPGA architecture that
includes adaptive logic modules (ALMs), digital signal processing
(DSP) blocks, embedded RAM, and a hard PCIe IP core. This FPGA family
provides the optimal logic, memory, and DSP capabilities to address
your needs. Unlike other 3-Gbps FPGAs, Arria II GX FPGAs offer
improvements in usability that allow you to complete your projects
faster."
http://www.altera.com/products/devices/arria-fpgas/arria-ii-gx/aiigx-index.=
jsp
But of course, the high-speed links make the devices more expensive.
Andreas