Efinix FPGA

Anyone using Efinix parts?  They look ok, even if they don't have a lot of package offerings. 

The smallest part has a 0.5A surge at power on.  The list it as "minimum", I'm guessing they mean the minimum required by the supply.  

They also don't provide software until you buy an eval board, so no way to check that out, up front.  

Funny company, but not as "funny" as Cologne Chip.  They have a part listed at Digikey, (in stock, too) but no 3.3V I/Os, only up to 2.5V.  

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Rick C.

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"gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:
> Anyone using Efinix parts?  They look ok, even if they don't have a
> lot of package offerings.

I checked into them a little while back, hoping for 5v tolerance, but
they didn't have it.

> They also don't provide software until you buy an eval board, so no
> way to check that out, up front.

Their smallest board used to be dirt cheap before the chip shortage.  I
got one just to test the software.

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/efinix-inc/XYLONI/13535080

> Funny company, but not as "funny" as Cologne Chip.  They have a part
> listed at Digikey, (in stock, too) but no 3.3V I/Os, only up to 2.5V.

3.3v I/O is listed in the datasheet for the Trion family, right on the
first page...

https://www.digikey.com/en/supplier-centers/efinix

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 8:25:27 PM UTC-4, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> Anyone using Efinix parts? They look ok, even if they don't have a lot of package offerings. 
> 
We are using Efinix due to supply chain shortages to replace Cyclone 10 part.
> 
> They also don't provide software until you buy an eval board, so no way to check that out, up front. 
> 
The software is OK, but Quartus for Intel/Altera parts is much better.  Haven't used Xilinx in too long of a time to make that comparison.

Kevin Jennings

On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote:
> "gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:
>> Anyone using Efinix parts?  They look ok, even if they don't have a
>> lot of package offerings.
> 
> I checked into them a little while back, hoping for 5v tolerance, but
> they didn't have it.

Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance?
I'm looking for one to replace an FDC9266.

Josef

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 2:31:30 AM UTC-4, Josef Moellers wrote:
> On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote: 
> > "gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes: 
> >> Anyone using Efinix parts? They look ok, even if they don't have a 
> >> lot of package offerings. 
> > 
> > I checked into them a little while back, hoping for 5v tolerance, but 
> > they didn't have it.
> Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance? 
> I'm looking for one to replace an FDC9266. 

Unless you use a very, very obsolete device, you won't find 5V tolerance in any FPGAs.  On inputs, 5V tolerance is easy to add, using just a pair of resistors as a voltage divider.  On output,  you will need to use at least a transistor to allow switching to 5V.  But if you are working with TTL inputs, you don't need 5V drive, 3.3V drive should be enough.  

There are also ways to use resistors on outputs, to allow higher rise, by giving up something on the low end.  What do you need to interface to? 

-- 

Rick C.

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On 13.07.22 15:36, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 2:31:30 AM UTC-4, Josef Moellers wrote:
>> On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote:
>>> "gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Anyone using Efinix parts? They look ok, even if they don't have a
>>>> lot of package offerings.
>>>
>>> I checked into them a little while back, hoping for 5v tolerance, but
>>> they didn't have it.
>> Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance?
>> I'm looking for one to replace an FDC9266.
> 
> Unless you use a very, very obsolete device, you won't find 5V tolerance in any FPGAs.  On inputs, 5V tolerance is easy to add, using just a pair of resistors as a voltage divider.  On output,  you will need to use at least a transistor to allow switching to 5V.  But if you are working with TTL inputs, you don't need 5V drive, 3.3V drive should be enough.
> 
> There are also ways to use resistors on outputs, to allow higher rise, by giving up something on the low end.  What do you need to interface to?

It's a very old SingleBoardComputer with an HD64180 and lots of LS TTL 
stuff. I need to interface to inputs (eg DMA requests), outputs (eg 
address lines) and bidirectional (data lines). I am considering using 
level shifters on the latter.

IIRC I had been asking here before and got the same answer you gave 
above, but as DJ mentioned it, I thought I might be lucky today.

As I'm hopefully having lots of spare time in the near future 
(retirement after almost 41 years in the IT industry), I guess I'll put 
it all together and give it a try.

Thanks anyway

Josef

Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance?

The Spartan 3E has an app note for how to add 5V tolerance to their I/O
with a single resistor, but 3E's are becoming scarce.

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 9:53:55 AM UTC-4, Josef Moellers wrote:
> On 13.07.22 15:36, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:=20
> > On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 2:31:30 AM UTC-4, Josef Moellers wrote:=
=20
> >> On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote:=20
> >>> "gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> writes:=20
> >>>> Anyone using Efinix parts? They look ok, even if they don't have a=
=20
> >>>> lot of package offerings.=20
> >>>=20
> >>> I checked into them a little while back, hoping for 5v tolerance, but=
=20
> >>> they didn't have it.=20
> >> Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance?=20
> >> I'm looking for one to replace an FDC9266.=20
> >=20
> > Unless you use a very, very obsolete device, you won't find 5V toleranc=
e in any FPGAs. On inputs, 5V tolerance is easy to add, using just a pair o=
f resistors as a voltage divider. On output, you will need to use at least =
a transistor to allow switching to 5V. But if you are working with TTL inpu=
ts, you don't need 5V drive, 3.3V drive should be enough.=20
> >=20
> > There are also ways to use resistors on outputs, to allow higher rise, =
by giving up something on the low end. What do you need to interface to?
> It's a very old SingleBoardComputer with an HD64180 and lots of LS TTL=20
> stuff. I need to interface to inputs (eg DMA requests), outputs (eg=20
> address lines) and bidirectional (data lines). I am considering using=20
> level shifters on the latter.=20
>=20
> IIRC I had been asking here before and got the same answer you gave=20
> above, but as DJ mentioned it, I thought I might be lucky today.=20
>=20
> As I'm hopefully having lots of spare time in the near future=20
> (retirement after almost 41 years in the IT industry), I guess I'll put=
=20
> it all together and give it a try.=20

I like switch based parts for 5-3.3V level shifting.  It drops the 5V power=
 rail to 4.3V internally, which is used to drive the gate of the pass trans=
istors.  This causes them to not conduct above 3.2V or so.  So the 5V side =
can swing as much as it likes and the 3.3V side is protected.  The 3.3V sid=
e can drive the 5V side to 3.3V which is adequate for TTL levels. =20

Using this with 2.5V logic doesn't work so well since 2.5V CMOS doesn't dri=
ve high enough for 5V TTL.  You have to use real level shifters.  Once you =
open that can of worms, it gets ugly with various parts for unidirectional =
and bidirectional.  How do you control the direction with parts that actual=
ly drive?=20

--=20

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 4:11:13 PM UTC-4, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Josef Moellers <josef.m...@invalid.invalid> writes: 
> > On 12.07.22 17:23, DJ Delorie wrote: 
> > Are there ANY FPGAs that have 5V tolerance?
> The Spartan 3E has an app note for how to add 5V tolerance to their I/O 
> with a single resistor, but 3E's are becoming scarce.

That's just a matter of limiting the current when the protection diode conducts.  However, it also limits speed, from the RC of the limiting resistor and the input capacitance. 

-- 

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209 

"gnuarm.del...@gmail.com" <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:

> Using this with 2.5V logic doesn't work so well since 2.5V CMOS
> doesn't drive high enough for 5V TTL.  You have to use real level
> shifters.  Once you open that can of worms, it gets ugly with various
> parts for unidirectional and bidirectional.  How do you control the
> direction with parts that actually drive?

Here in Europe, there was a lot of RoHS conversions about two decades
ago which in practise meant swithcing to lead free components.