FPGA board for USB experiments?

Antti Lukats a �crit :

>>>the usb micro is cypress fx2
>>  Are you 100% sure of that (the only FX2 they mention in the datasheet is 
>>an extension connector) ?
>>  If yes, how is the FIFO port of the FX2 connected to the FPGA ?
> pretty sure, yes the datasheet refers to FX2 (as extension connector)
> but the board has on on-board embedded usb platfrom cable, and that includes 
> the cypress FX2 usb micro

   But perhaps just the pins to program the FPGA and the flash memory 
are connected, and the USB port cannot be used to transfer personal data 
through the FIFO of the FX2 microcontroller. It seems to be so, because 
else they would probably mention that this board has a USB port that can 
transfer high-speed USB data, and they do not. They just say that the 
board can be programmed through USB.

> this pages are left out from schematics and are covered up with ink on PCB 
> prints

   Yes, I saw that... :-(

Goodbye,
          St�phane.

Hi,

> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.

take a look here:
http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/default.php?cPath=1

I think, the Spartan-3 Micromodule with USB UTMI Phy is exactly what you 
want.

best regards
Thorsten Trenz

St=E9phane Goujet schrieb:

> Antti Lukats a =E9crit :
>
> >>>the usb micro is cypress fx2
> >>  Are you 100% sure of that (the only FX2 they mention in the datasheet=
 is
> >>an extension connector) ?
> >>  If yes, how is the FIFO port of the FX2 connected to the FPGA ?
> > pretty sure, yes the datasheet refers to FX2 (as extension connector)
> > but the board has on on-board embedded usb platfrom cable, and that inc=
ludes
> > the cypress FX2 usb micro
>
>    But perhaps just the pins to program the FPGA and the flash memory
> are connected, and the USB port cannot be used to transfer personal data
> through the FIFO of the FX2 microcontroller. It seems to be so, because
> else they would probably mention that this board has a USB port that can
> transfer high-speed USB data, and they do not. They just say that the
> board can be programmed through USB.
>
> > this pages are left out from schematics and are covered up with ink on =
PCB
> > prints
>
>    Yes, I saw that... :-(
>
> Goodbye,
>           St=E9phane.

well they dont provide and user communication over the USB controller,
but sure it
would be possible, maybe not with the max transfer rate, but still
possible

Antti

St=E9phane Goujet schrieb:

> Antti a =E9crit :
>
> >>>the USB chip on the Xilinx s3e starterboard is the same as on the
> >>>opalkelly board I think,
> >>Thanks for that. It would have to be the USB interface on the censored
> >>page. Is the usb eeprom reprogrammable on-board?
> > the usb micro is cypress fx2
>
>    Are you 100% sure of that (the only FX2 they mention in the datasheet
> is an extension connector) ?
>    If yes, how is the FIFO port of the FX2 connected to the FPGA ?
>
> Goodbye,
>           St=E9phane.
I did not say the FIFO port is connected - I said that the USB
controller
can be used for user defined protocols, also transferring user data

Antti

Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:

>In comp.arch.fpga Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@omitthisyahooandthis.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
>> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
>> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
>> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
>
>The interface is not only speed limited, but also missing needed
>functionality, at least for USB2. USB+ and USB- need to be evaluated in many
>ways, not possible with a normal FPGA input. There are chips implementing the
>physical access (UTMI).

Thanks. I see. If I built an transceiver board myself, it'd have to be
for USB 1.1 with a basic transceiver chip such as the MAX3346E which
I'd run at low speed. I have managed to solder 14-pin TSSOP packages to
prototype boards in the past, although I'd rather find a DIP chip if I
could.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Thorsten Trenz <nq@trenz-electronic.de> wrote:

>Dave Farrance wrote:
>> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
>> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
>> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
>> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
>
>take a look here:
>http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/default.php?cPath=1
>
>I think, the Spartan-3 Micromodule with USB UTMI Phy is exactly what you 
>want.

Ah yes. Thanks. That's the most promising so far. The Trendz TE-XC3S
micromodule with TE-0143 carrier board and TE-0149 programmer comes to
$173. I can live with a parallel-port programmer, although I rather
have USB or serial-port programming.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote:

>Ah yes. Thanks. That's the most promising so far. The Trendz TE-XC3S
>micromodule with TE-0143 carrier board and TE-0149 programmer comes to
>$173. I can live with a parallel-port programmer, although I rather
>have USB or serial-port programming.

Whoops, I mangled your name, Herr Trenz. Sorry about that.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave

Have a look at this module 
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction 
with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage limiter(bus 
switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.

-- 
John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Raggedstone1. The Low Cost Spartan-3 Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk


"Dave Farrance" <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:29t2821lqgte6hui7j4vqsjs3qgid4d212@4ax.com...
> Hi. I want to get my brain around USB interfaces, how to design the
> hardware and the software, and eventually to find what economic
> hardware solutions are available, and how USB hardware interfaces can
> be arranged to make the best use of generic USB drivers to minimise
> problems associated with driver installation.
>
> It's not something that I've been able to investigate in the
> time-limited projects that I've done as an electronic designer, and so
> I've tended to use RS485 interfaces or other alternatives. I've decided
> that It's high time that I understood USB, so I'll pick up the
> knowledge by occasionally dabbling with it at home over a period of a
> few months which is something that works OK for me.
>
> I'm not very good at reading screeds of technical description and
> retaining it in my memory, so I need to get my hands dirty with some
> experimental design and coding that I can interact with to get the
> concepts anchored in my mind. I'm reasonably competent in C, C++, VHDL
> and Verilog, and can code quite swiftly.
>
> To kick off, I'd like to get an FPGA board with a RAM-based FPGA that
> can be configured via a serial or USB cable to a laptop. For my
> experiments, the board also needs a USB interface that passes the raw
> USB data stream directly to the FPGA, or it should be easily
> convertible to do so. The FPGA needs to be big enough to hold
> open-source HDL USB interfaces and to hold models that mimic the
> interfaces to common USB equipment like flash keys, printers and
> modems. Any suggestions? I'm aiming to keep the cost reasonable - $100
> to $150 say - and I'm prepared to put up with the limitations of free
> software such as the speed-crippled Modelsim HDL simulator.
>
> -- 
> Dave Farrance 

Antti a �crit :

>>>the usb micro is cypress fx2
> I did not say the FIFO port is connected - I said that the USB
> controller can be used for user defined protocols, also
 > transferring user data
> well they dont provide and user communication over the USB
> controller, but sure it would be possible, maybe not with the max
> transfer rate, but still possible

   OK, well, it is a pity (for me, I suppose those pins are more useful 
somewhere else for other people).
   I guess I have to look towards boards like Orange Tree Tech.'s 
ZestSC1, Opal Kelly's XEM3001 or Cesys' USB3FPGA. Only problem is that 
they are 2 or 3 or 4 times the price as Xilinx' S3E starter kit without 
all the functions this starter kit includes.

Goodbye,
          St�phane.

"John Adair" <removethisthenleavejea@replacewithcompanyname.co.uk>
wrote:

>Have a look at this module 
>http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction 
>with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage limiter(bus 
>switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.

Thanks. I'm a bit confused by the "shop" section. The RS1-400 and the
RS1-1500 both have the same description including:

"FPGA: XilinxTM SpartanTM-3 FPGA, in FG456 package, fitted to the
board. Available with XC3S400 fitted."

I presume that it should be the XC3S1500 in the latter case.

Also the wording is ambiguous. I presume that "Available with XC3S400
fitted" does mean that the FPGA *is* fitted for the that price, rather
than being an option?

-- 
Dave Farrance