We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
Altera delivery
Started by ●October 26, 2012
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote:> > > We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II > GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. > > Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the > cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs.Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or tablets? I see FPGA supply vary all the time as well as other devices. Once I couldn't get an AKM CODEC in the 8 week window I tend to rely on and the disti got AKM in the loop. They said they had a reliable 14 week factory delivery as if that was something to brag about! I'm a small player so all I can do is grin and say "thank you". Rick
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:24:14 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:> > >We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II >GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. > >Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the >cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs.I've been told that everyone is cutting back production starts, expecting 2010 redux if Obama is reelected.
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On 27 Okt., 12:37, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: > > > > > We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II > > GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. > > > Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the > > cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. > > Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or > tablets? >they don't, but as far I know Altera use TSMC, Xilinx UMC so they compete for time at the fabs with the cell phone stuff -Lasse
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On 10/27/2012 3:47 PM, langwadt@fonz.dk wrote:> On 27 Okt., 12:37, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> >>> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II >>> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. >> >>> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the >>> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. >> >> Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or >> tablets? >> > > they don't, but as far I know Altera use TSMC, Xilinx UMC so they > compete for time at the fabs with the cell phone stuff > > -LasseThat may be, but the fabs schedule production runs way, way in advance. I'm sure Xilinx and Altera are at the head of the list when it comes to getting more share as well. If there was a shortage, it would more likely be higher FPGA demand than it would be X or A getting cut out of their fab time. Rick
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On Oct 27, 10:01=A0pm, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote:> On 10/27/2012 3:47 PM, langw...@fonz.dk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Okt., 12:37, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com> =A0wrote: > >> On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: > > >>> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II > >>> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. > > >>> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the > >>> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. > > >> Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or > >> tablets? > > > they don't, but as far I know Altera use TSMC, Xilinx UMC so they > > compete for time at the fabs with the cell phone stuff > > > -Lasse > > That may be, but the fabs schedule production runs way, way in advance. > =A0 I'm sure Xilinx and Altera are at the head of the list when it comes > to getting more share as well.Quallcomm is way more important than ether X or A. Even NVidea and AMD are, at very least, as important as X&A. Also, does not TI use TSMC for OMAP5? If true, it wouldn't affect Arria2, since it uses older fabs, but could affect priority of 5- series Altera products.> =A0If there was a shortage, it would more > likely be higher FPGA demand than it would be X or A getting cut out of > their fab time. > > RickIt's the same thing seen from different angle. You have higher demand than was originally expected and then want to get more waffers than what's already scheduled, but can't because you are not the most important of TSMC customers.
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:37:36 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> >> >> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II >> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. >> >> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the >> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. > >Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or >tablets?They use silicon and wafer steppers. Both Xilinx and Altera are fabless, so they have to compete for fab slots. You would think, for $200 to $15,000 per FPGA, that they could get their wafers fabbed.
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On Oct 28, 12:09=A0am, John Larkin <jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:> On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 06:37:36 -0400, rickman <gnu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: > > >> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II > >> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. > > >> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the > >> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. > > >Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or > >tablets? > > They use silicon and wafer steppers. Both Xilinx and Altera are > fabless, so they have to compete for fab slots. > > You would think, for $200 to $15,000 per FPGA, that they could get > their wafers fabbed.Except that selling price of Arria II GX65 to big customers is much less than $200. And by die area it's no small chip. Few years ago I heard about one not particularly big, but important Altera customers getting Startix3-50E for $100 apiece. Stratix, not Arria. Arria2 is considered mid-range rather than high-end, so I wouldn't be surprised if really big customers are paying $60-$70 for A2-GX65.
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On 10/27/2012 5:16 PM, Michael S wrote:> On Oct 27, 10:01 pm, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 10/27/2012 3:47 PM, langw...@fonz.dk wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 27 Okt., 12:37, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> On 10/26/2012 11:24 AM, John Larkin wrote: >> >>>>> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II >>>>> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. >> >>>>> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the >>>>> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. >> >>>> Since when do they use FPGAs in high volume stuff like cell phones or >>>> tablets? >> >>> they don't, but as far I know Altera use TSMC, Xilinx UMC so they >>> compete for time at the fabs with the cell phone stuff >> >>> -Lasse >> >> That may be, but the fabs schedule production runs way, way in advance. >> I'm sure Xilinx and Altera are at the head of the list when it comes >> to getting more share as well. > > Quallcomm is way more important than ether X or A. > Even NVidea and AMD are, at very least, as important as X&A. > Also, does not TI use TSMC for OMAP5? If true, it wouldn't affect > Arria2, since it uses older fabs, but could affect priority of 5- > series Altera products. > >> If there was a shortage, it would more >> likely be higher FPGA demand than it would be X or A getting cut out of >> their fab time. >> >> Rick > > It's the same thing seen from different angle. > You have higher demand than was originally expected and then want to > get more waffers than what's already scheduled, but can't because you > are not the most important of TSMC customers.I don't think any customers are the 600 lb gorilla. A small customer might get displaced, but none of the large customers expect to have their schedules disrupted and none expect to be able to disrupt the schedules of the other gorillas. Rick
Reply by ●October 27, 20122012-10-27
On 10/27/2012 3:28 PM, krw@att.bizzz wrote:> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:24:14 -0700, John Larkin > <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >> >> >> We are seeing huge leadtimes on Altera FPGAs, specifically Arria II >> GX65 and 95. Numbers like 20 weeks and worse. >> >> Is this specific to Altera, or to Arria parts? I wonder if all the >> cell phones and tablets and stuff are overloading the fabs. > > I've been told that everyone is cutting back production starts, > expecting 2010 redux if Obama is reelected.Geeze, can't you leave politics out of a technical thread? Oh, I forgot, this is sci.electronics.design! Politics is always on topic... Rick
