ABEL support for legacy chips

Hi.

I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC�s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for 
these chips anymore. Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio, 
does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for 
small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own 
PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as 
freeware, opensource or similar?

Eirik

Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC�s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
> Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for 
> these chips anymore. 

That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....

That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...

> Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio, 
> does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for 
> small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own 
> PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as 
> freeware, opensource or similar?

  Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source, 
and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)

  The Xilinx ABEL has a certain amount of inbuilt ability, and it looks 
like, if you really want to, you can get PLA and BLIF files from the 
current Xilinx ABEL flows.

  What you then need is the relevent Signetics PLS100 fitter, or you
could look for the Signetics software - IIRC their SW called Amaze 
supported the PLS100, and it had a successor called SLICE, but both
are ancient.

  Or, you could look for a device similar to the PLS100, but still
in production, such as the ICT  PA7536 or PA7540 ?

  ICT offer current software to support these devices.
See http://www.anachip.com/eng/product/pld.php

  The 22V10 is still quite active (Atmel, ICT, Lattice), but has fewer 
total pins than a PLS100.

  -jg

"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> wrote in message
news:1qgRc.2273$zS6.270874@news02.tsnz.net...
> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC&#4294967295;s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
> > Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for
> > these chips anymore.
>
> That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....
>
> That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
> see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...
>
> > Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio,
> > does only support it's own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for
> > small PLDS has been taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own
> > PLD families. Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as
> > freeware, opensource or similar?
>
>   Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source,
> and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
> ( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)

I would design a small PCB for the new CPLD that would plug in to the old
device socket.

Leon

Jim Granville wrote:
> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> Hi.
>>
>> I have an old ABEL source code (no JEDEC�s) for an 82S100/PLS100 FPLA.
>> Problem is that I can't find any company supporting ABEL compilers for 
>> these chips anymore. 
> 
> 
> That's because no one makes the chips anymore.....
> 
> That said, I see you CAN still actually buy the PLS100, and I also
> see my PLD programmer still shows a PLS100 on the menu...
> 
>> Xilinx, which aquired Synario/ABEL from Dataio, does only support it's 
>> own families of FPGAS/CPLDS. ABEL support for small PLDS has been 
>> taken over by Lattice also supporting only their own PLD families. 
>> Anyone know if Xilinx released legacy ABEL compilers as freeware, 
>> opensource or similar?
> 
> 
>  Nope - Xilinx's response will be to tell you to take your ABEL source, 
> and recompile for a CoolRunner CPLD.
> ( but that does not retrofit too easily into a PLS100 socket.)
> 
>  The Xilinx ABEL has a certain amount of inbuilt ability, and it looks 
> like, if you really want to, you can get PLA and BLIF files from the 
> current Xilinx ABEL flows.
> 
>  What you then need is the relevent Signetics PLS100 fitter, or you
> could look for the Signetics software - IIRC their SW called Amaze 
> supported the PLS100, and it had a successor called SLICE, but both
> are ancient.
> 
>  Or, you could look for a device similar to the PLS100, but still
> in production, such as the ICT  PA7536 or PA7540 ?
> 
>  ICT offer current software to support these devices.
> See http://www.anachip.com/eng/product/pld.php
> 
>  The 22V10 is still quite active (Atmel, ICT, Lattice), but has fewer 
> total pins than a PLS100.
> 
>  -jg
> 
> 
> 
> 

Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

Eirik

Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
> the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
> organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
> consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
> newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
> of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.

  Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
- in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
with the 82S100/PLS100.
  You could also try direct fuse editing :)
-jg

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> > considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
> > of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
> 
Eirik,

Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?

Mike

mmock wrote:
>>Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>
>>>considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older version 
>>>of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>
> Eirik,
> 
> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
> 
> Mike

Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error: 
out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.

Eirik

Jim Granville wrote:

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for answering. The 82S100 is now in production reintroduced to 
>> the marked by QP Semi. Anyway, this is not an issue for me as my 
>> organisation has 82S100's in-house in adequate numbers. My project 
>> consist of replacing an older version of the programmed chip with a 
>> newer one on a limited number of circuit cards. I have already 
>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
> 
> 
>  Wow, a PLS100 data sheet with June 2004 on it :)
> Google did find what looks like (most of?) Amaze, here
> http://www.filelibrary.com/Contents/DOS/80/
> - in case you have problems finding an old ABEL
> with the 82S100/PLS100.
>  You could also try direct fuse editing :)
> -jg
> 
Thanks, but I've found and downloaded it when you gave me the name. 
Haven't tried it though, as disk 2 was missing and I later on found Abel 
on a web site.

Eirik

Eirik Seljelid wrote:

> mmock wrote:
> 
>>> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>>
>>>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>>>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>>
>>>
>> Eirik,
>>
>> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
>> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
>>
>> Mike
> 
> 
> Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
> compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal error: 
> out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of the source.

  Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928 
fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
  CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
-jg

Jim Granville wrote:

> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
> 
>> mmock wrote:
>>
>>>> Eirik Seljelid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> considered the PA7536, but I find it way easyer to get an older 
>>>>> version of ABEL, compile the code for 82S100 and burn the chips.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Eirik,
>>>
>>> Have you located it?  I'm not familiar with the 82S100.  I have an
>>> ancient version of ABEL, circa 1988.  Is that too ancient?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure. I've found Abel 2.0 and Abel 4.0 on the net and tried to 
>> compile the source, but in both versions I got the message "fatal 
>> error: out of memory". It worked when I tried to compile only parts of 
>> the source.
> 
> 
>  Some (most?) ABEL's needed keys, this may be a security artifact ?
> It is hard to believe the 82S100, which my info shows has just 1928 
> fuses (smaller than a 16V8), would tax memory ?
>  CUPL probably also supported the 82S100.
> -jg
> 
Could be, but I suppose it would come up with an error message asking 
for valid keys or something like that. When I cutted down the source it 
would compile. I haven't really set up an old dos environment yet so I 
think I will try this as soon as I get the time to do it. AFAIK CUPL is 
a different HDL than Abel, which means I have to rewrite the source to 
CUPL syntax. My HDL programming experience is somewhat limited. I've 
written some PLD-cicuits in PALASM and another GAL-assembler called 
GALASM. Very basic, no high-level coding. Although I probably understand 
most of the code I'm really not so keen on translating it. The equipment 
using the FPLA also incorporates a serious amout of other PLD devices, 
mostly 22V10's and EP600's, all documented with Abel source code.


Eirik