On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:48:43 -0700, wavemediagram wrote:> May I suggest Waveme? > > waveme.weebly.com > > It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software > for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). > > Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, > where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or > TIFF) or a PDF document.You need to add SVG or other vector formats to that list. Possibly EPS as well. Bitmap formats (PNG, BMP, TIFF) aren't really that great for exporting something that is inherently vector based. Allan
Free timing diagram drawing software
Started by ●October 5, 2003
Reply by ●October 22, 20162016-10-22
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote:> May I suggest Waveme? > > waveme.weebly.com > > It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). > > Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, > where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or TIFF) or a PDF document. > > Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows and labels (see attached images).This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I would want to be using it unless the source were available. I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine. -- Rick C
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote:> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >> May I suggest Waveme? >> >> waveme.weebly.com >> >> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software >> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >> >> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or >> TIFF) or a PDF document. >> >> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows >> and labels (see attached images). > > This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free > speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making > money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? > > I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to > consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use > sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I > would want to be using it unless the source were available. > > I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using > because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no > more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine. >Eudora? -- Cecil - k5nwa
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote:> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>> May I suggest Waveme? >>> >>> waveme.weebly.com >>> >>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software >>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>> >>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or >>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>> >>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows >>> and labels (see attached images). >> >> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free >> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making >> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >> >> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to >> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use >> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >> >> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no >> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine.Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it would work with filters and such for my regular email. Eudora is a great program, but some day I won't be able to use it anymore. -- Rick C
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote:> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>> >>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>> >>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software >>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>> >>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or >>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>> >>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows >>>> and labels (see attached images). >>> >>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in "free >>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making >>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >>> >>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to >>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use >>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>> >>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no >>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine. > > Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how it would > work with filters and such for my regular email.Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for everything else) access. Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) > Eudora is a great program, but> some day I won't be able to use it anymore.ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, with all attachments in the same directory. If two attachments had the same name, you lost the first, doh! But that was from 15 years ago.
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote: >> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>>> >>>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>>> >>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software >>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>>> >>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or >>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>>> >>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows >>>>> and labels (see attached images). >>>> >>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in >>>> "free >>>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making >>>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >>>> >>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to >>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use >>>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>>> >>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no >>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine. >> >> Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how >> it would >> work with filters and such for my regular email. > > Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for > everything else) access.Whatever that means. I'm talking about the user interface. I expect the internals to work the same. At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work alike, Penelope. I think it was never completed. Probably found there was little benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved.> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, > which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring > from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox > file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) > > >> Eudora is a great program, but >> some day I won't be able to use it anymore. > > ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, > with all attachments in the same directory. If two > attachments had the same name, you lost the first, > doh!No, duplicate file names happen all the time. They add a digit to the subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email. The problem I have is trying to cull the directory. If I move useful files elsewhere the email points to a null file. If I leave them in place the numbers get huge over years! It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap. Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.> But that was from 15 years ago. >-- Rick C
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote:> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote: >>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>>>> >>>>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>>>> >>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing software >>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>>>> >>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, BMP or >>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>>>> >>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, arrows >>>>>> and labels (see attached images). >>>>> >>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in >>>>> "free >>>>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in making >>>>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >>>>> >>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the wayside to >>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only use >>>>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>>>> >>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. But no >>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new machine. >>> >>> Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how >>> it would >>> work with filters and such for my regular email. >> >> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for >> everything else) access. > > Whatever that means. I'm talking about the user interface. I expect the > internals to work the same.So am I, and I don't care, respectively. IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case google disappears), and leaves the original on the google server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing more complex searches. POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them on the server.> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work alike, > Penelope. I think it was never completed. Probably found there was little > benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved. > > >> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, >> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring >> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox >> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) >> >> >>> Eudora is a great program, but >>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore. >> >> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, >> with all attachments in the same directory. If two >> attachments had the same name, you lost the first, >> doh! > > No, duplicate file names happen all the time. They add a digit to the > subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email. > > The problem I have is trying to cull the directory. If I move useful files > elsewhere the email points to a null file. If I leave them in place the numbers > get huge over years! It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap. > Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails.Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up, avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple entirely different tools can read the same format. If I want to extract a single message including attachments, then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and hey presto there it is. I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something simple like that. The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why I swapped)
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote: >> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote: >>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing >>>>>>> software >>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, >>>>>>> BMP or >>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, >>>>>>> arrows >>>>>>> and labels (see attached images). >>>>>> >>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in >>>>>> "free >>>>>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in >>>>>> making >>>>>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the >>>>>> wayside to >>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only >>>>>> use >>>>>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. >>>>>> But no >>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new >>>>>> machine. >>>> >>>> Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how >>>> it would >>>> work with filters and such for my regular email. >>> >>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for >>> everything else) access. >> >> Whatever that means. I'm talking about the user interface. I expect the >> internals to work the same. > > So am I, and I don't care, respectively. > > IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case > google disappears), and leaves the original on the google > server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing > more complex searches. > > POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them > on the server.Yes, I'm familiar with the two. But that isn't the user interface. All email programs use one or the other or either of the protocols. But they have different user interfaces.>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work >> alike, >> Penelope. I think it was never completed. Probably found there was >> little >> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved. >> >> >>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, >>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring >>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox >>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) >>> >>> >>>> Eudora is a great program, but >>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore. >>> >>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, >>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two >>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first, >>> doh! >> >> No, duplicate file names happen all the time. They add a digit to the >> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email. >> >> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory. If I move useful >> files >> elsewhere the email points to a null file. If I leave them in place >> the numbers >> get huge over years! It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap. >> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails. > > Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up, > avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple > entirely different tools can read the same format. If > I want to extract a single message including attachments, > then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and > hey presto there it is.I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr implementation detail that a user won't be aware of. I assume you are saying Eudora didn't do the best job on this feature.> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something > simple like that.Complexity??? What's complex?> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains > 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey > has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why > I swapped)I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar. Both have some issues, but mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward. I find it freezes for some seconds periodically, even while typing. There is no need for that really. I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird. What would it take to switch? Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the account setups including the newsgroup stuff? -- Rick C
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote:> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote: >>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote: >>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing >>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, >>>>>>>> BMP or >>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, >>>>>>>> arrows >>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in >>>>>>> "free >>>>>>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in >>>>>>> making >>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open source? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the >>>>>>> wayside to >>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only >>>>>>> use >>>>>>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. >>>>>>> But no >>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new >>>>>>> machine. >>>>> >>>>> Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how >>>>> it would >>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email. >>>> >>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for >>>> everything else) access. >>> >>> Whatever that means. I'm talking about the user interface. I expect the >>> internals to work the same. >> >> So am I, and I don't care, respectively. >> >> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case >> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google >> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing >> more complex searches. >> >> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them >> on the server. > > Yes, I'm familiar with the two. But that isn't the user interface. All email > programs use one or the other or either of the protocols. But they have > different user interfaces.The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/ different, but that's directly understandable from the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the files are stored.>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work >>> alike, >>> Penelope. I think it was never completed. Probably found there was >>> little >>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved. >>> >>> >>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, >>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring >>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox >>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) >>>> >>>> >>>>> Eudora is a great program, but >>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore. >>>> >>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, >>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two >>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first, >>>> doh! >>> >>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time. They add a digit to the >>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email. >>> >>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory. If I move useful >>> files >>> elsewhere the email points to a null file. If I leave them in place >>> the numbers >>> get huge over years! It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap. >>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails. >> >> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up, >> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple >> entirely different tools can read the same format. If >> I want to extract a single message including attachments, >> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and >> hey presto there it is. > > I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr implementation > detail that a user won't be aware of. I assume you are saying Eudora didn't do > the best job on this feature. > > >> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something >> simple like that. > > Complexity??? What's complex? > > >> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains >> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey >> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why >> I swapped) > > I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar. Both have some issues, but > mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward. I find it freezes for > some seconds periodically, even while typing. There is no need for that really.Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files. That happened suddenly from one TB release to another, and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives such as Eudora. I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly the same problem, but it doesn't. Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working, so I assume a degree of multithreading.> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird. What would it take > to switch? Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the account > setups including the newsgroup stuff?Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could flip between the two on the same directory tree, but prudence dictates copying the directory tree. On my machine that is ~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/ Note the similarity in naming conventions! Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see what you think.
Reply by ●October 24, 20162016-10-24
On 10/24/2016 8:19 PM, Tom Gardner wrote:> On 25/10/16 00:49, rickman wrote: >> On 10/24/2016 5:26 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >>> On 24/10/16 19:55, rickman wrote: >>>> On 10/24/2016 2:45 PM, Tom Gardner wrote: >>>>> On 24/10/16 19:02, rickman wrote: >>>>>> On 10/24/2016 11:33 AM, Cecil Bayona wrote: >>>>>>> On 10/24/2016 10:17 AM, rickman wrote: >>>>>>>> On 10/21/2016 5:48 PM, wavemediagram@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> May I suggest Waveme? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> waveme.weebly.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It is a new, free, GUI-based, digital timing diagram drawing >>>>>>>>> software >>>>>>>>> for Windows (and Linux/MacOS via Wine). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Waveme is intended primarily for documentation purposes, >>>>>>>>> where a diagram can be exported (stored) to an image file (PNG, >>>>>>>>> BMP or >>>>>>>>> TIFF) or a PDF document. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Waveme can be used to draw waveforms (signals and buses), gaps, >>>>>>>>> arrows >>>>>>>>> and labels (see attached images). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is "free" software in the sense of "free beer", but not as in >>>>>>>> "free >>>>>>>> speech", right? It doesn't appear that there is an interest in >>>>>>>> making >>>>>>>> money from this, at least not for now. Why not make it open >>>>>>>> source? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've seen too many special purpose graphical tools go by the >>>>>>>> wayside to >>>>>>>> consider spending time to learn a tool like this that I would only >>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>> sporadically. If this tool ends up with no support I don't think I >>>>>>>> would want to be using it unless the source were available. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have an email program like that which I don't want to stop using >>>>>>>> because it works well and I'd have a learning curve to switch. >>>>>>>> But no >>>>>>>> more bug fixes and one of these days it won't port to the new >>>>>>>> machine. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah. I use T-bird for newsgroups, but I've never gotten used to how >>>>>> it would >>>>>> work with filters and such for my regular email. >>>>> >>>>> Exactly the same way, with either IMAP (for gmail) or POP (for >>>>> everything else) access. >>>> >>>> Whatever that means. I'm talking about the user interface. I >>>> expect the >>>> internals to work the same. >>> >>> So am I, and I don't care, respectively. >>> >>> IMAP keeps a copy of the emails on my machine (in case >>> google disappears), and leaves the original on the google >>> server. Occasionally I the gmail web interface when doing >>> more complex searches. >>> >>> POP3 copies the files to my machines and deletes them >>> on the server. >> >> Yes, I'm familiar with the two. But that isn't the user interface. >> All email >> programs use one or the other or either of the protocols. But they have >> different user interfaces. > > The GUIs are the same. The semantics are /slightly/ > different, but that's directly understandable from > the high-level POP3/IMAP philosophy of where the > files are stored.At this point I think we are not communicating. I am talking about the user interface of an email program. I've never seen two the same. I think you are still talking about the protocols although I don't know how you can relate the protocol to a user interface. My point is all email programs work without the user knowing anything about the protocol. It has little impact on the user interface other than error and/or status messages. Eudora gives a bit more info by showing the several stages involved in getting the email, but that is not central to the user interface.>>>> At one point there was an effort to morph T-bird into a Eudora work >>>> alike, >>>> Penelope. I think it was never completed. Probably found there was >>>> little >>>> benefit compared to the huge amount of work involved. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Caveat: I haven't used TBird recently, but I use Seamonkey, >>>>> which is effectively the same thing. Certainly transferring >>>>> from one to the other was trivial: just use the same mbox >>>>> file (or a copy if you are feeling slightly pessimistic) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Eudora is a great program, but >>>>>> some day I won't be able to use it anymore. >>>>> >>>>> ISTR Eudora kept attachments separate from the email, >>>>> with all attachments in the same directory. If two >>>>> attachments had the same name, you lost the first, >>>>> doh! >>>> >>>> No, duplicate file names happen all the time. They add a digit to the >>>> subsequent attachment file name and note that in the email. >>>> >>>> The problem I have is trying to cull the directory. If I move useful >>>> files >>>> elsewhere the email points to a null file. If I leave them in place >>>> the numbers >>>> get huge over years! It is nearly impossible to delete all the crap. >>>> Bazillions of tiny files are used in graphic HTML emails. >>> >>> Keeping them in mbox format avoids splitting them up, >>> avoids fiddling with filename suffixes, and multiple >>> entirely different tools can read the same format. If >>> I want to extract a single message including attachments, >>> then I simply select it and copy it to a folder, and >>> hey presto there it is. >> >> I'm not familiar with mbox format, but then this is anotehr >> implementation >> detail that a user won't be aware of. I assume you are saying Eudora >> didn't do >> the best job on this feature. >> >> >>> I couldn't cope with Eudora's complexity for something >>> simple like that. >> >> Complexity??? What's complex? >> >> >>> The only disadvantage is that my gmail inbox contains >>> 10034 messages, and the mbox file is 890MB. Seamonkey >>> has no problems whatsoever (Thunderbird did; that's why >>> I swapped) >> >> I use T-bird for newsgroups and it's my calendar. Both have some >> issues, but >> mostly I find the user interface to be a little awkward. I find it >> freezes for >> some seconds periodically, even while typing. There is no need for >> that really. > > Long pauses are what made me swap. IIRC, and it > is a long time ago, TB hit a cliff with large files. > That happened suddenly from one TB release to another, > and it is the reason I started looking at alternatives > such as Eudora. > > I see no reason why Seamonkey shouldn't have exactly > the same problem, but it doesn't.I was just going to ask...> Of course, when I compress the mbox (before archiving > it) that account freezes while the 1GB file is copied > at 50MB/s. Other accounts and newsgroups keep working, > so I assume a degree of multithreading. > > >> I didn't realize Seamonkey was much different from T-bird. What would >> it take >> to switch? Could I port all the emails I have used on T-bird and the >> account >> setups including the newsgroup stuff? > > Yes, with 99.5% probability. I suspect you could > flip between the two on the same directory tree, > but prudence dictates copying the directory tree. > On my machine that is > ~/.mozilla/seamonkey/k7xa5cev.default/ > Note the similarity in naming conventions! > > Download seamonkey, copy tree, try it, see > what you think.Maybe I will. Does it have anything like Lightning for a calendar program? -- Rick C
