Xilinx legacy situation

Tim Forcer wrote:
> Neil Glenn Jacobson wrote:
> 
>>iMPACT (all versions, full or WebPACK install) has
>>supported and does support download via Parallel
>>Cable III (in fact, I have one on my desk
>>and it works just fine) as well as configuration
>>of legacy devices.
> 
> 
> Err, not the version embedded in Project Navigator.  It scans
> all the ports (USB, LPT1:n, COM1:n) looking for a compatible
> cable.  This takes quite a while.  Then it stops and asks the
> user to define the cable.  Click "Parallel" and "lpt1" and it
> says there's nothing there.

There are several issues worthy of note:

(1) You may have "old" Xilinx parallel port drivers installed on your 
system that should be removed.  With the release of 5.1i, a new version 
of the parallel port drivers was included.  There is no backward 
compatibility between iMPACT pre-5.1i and post-5.1i

http://support.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_ans_display.jsp?iLanguageID=1&iCountryID=1&getPagePath=16494

(2) You are using a "clone" of Parallel Cable III not the "real deal". 
We have seen situations in which the clones are not quite clones and 
fail for a variety of PC-related reasons.

(3) You may need to set your BIOS to use the Bidirectional (rather than 
ECP or EPP) mode for the parallel port.



> 
> We think we're not unique in having this problem:
> <http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=%25Qjv7.59250%24y7.681072%40dbsch1.home.nl>.
> 
> We did try the various fixes suggested by
> <http://support.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_ans_display.jsp?iLanguageID=1&iCountryID=1&getPagePath=15742>
> - so far without success.  What we've gone with for the time
> being is Webpack iMPACT running stand-alone.
> 

Hi,

I recently went through the exercise of updating my material
from XSE 2.1i to XSE 4.2i.  It was a lot of work, I will admit.
All of the schematic based projects needed to be converted into
Verilog.  Plus new hardware (Spartan-IIE).  Anyone who is doing
the same, or considering doing the same, please feel free to
borrow anything that helps you from my class website:

http://www.engr.sjsu.edu/crabill

Thanks,
Eric

Tim wrote:
> 
> Tim Forcer wrote:
> > Peter Alfke top-posted:
> >>
> >> Tim, you have to get over the idea of still
> >> getting something from your old chip investment.
> >> Xilinx FPGAs have become 100 times (!) cheaper,
> >> have added functionality and better software
> >> support since the days when you bought the
> >> XC4013s.
> >
> > It's not the chip investment that's the *big* hangup, but the
> > equipment investment.  The chips were chosen deliberately in
> > pin-grid-array package so we could replace as and when we wanted
> > - including when/if they got blown up by misuse.  Throw-away ICs
> > we can live with - even at the price of PGA 4013s.  Throw-away
> > experimental units is another ball game.
> 
> I suspect your best compromise may be to select the latest
> and greatest - in Xilinx' case, this is currently Spartan-3
> - and have a tiny daughter board built with FPGA, regulator
> and protection/interface chips.
> 
> Of course you would still have to address the issue of
> updating all the course material, as Jonathan discussed
> a month or so ago.
> 
> And you would have to repeat the exercise every five years
> or so.

Neil Glenn Jacobson wrote:
> 
> Tim Forcer wrote:
>>
>> Neil Glenn Jacobson wrote:
>>
>>> iMPACT (all versions, full or WebPACK install) has
>>> supported and does support download via Parallel
>>> Cable III (in fact, I have one on my desk
>>> and it works just fine) as well as configuration
>>> of legacy devices.
>>
>> Err, not the version embedded in Project Navigator.
>> ...
> 
> There are several issues worthy of note:
> 
> (1) You may have "old" Xilinx parallel port drivers
> ...
> 
> http://support.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_ans_display.jsp?iLanguageID=1&iCountryID=1&getPagePath=16494

Tried that - and some variants.  No change.

> (2) You are using a "clone" of Parallel Cable III not
> the "real deal".  We have seen situations in which the
> clones are not quite clones and fail for a variety of
> PC-related reasons.

No difference between clone circuitry and "real deal" hardware.

> (3) You may need to set your BIOS to use the Bidirectional
> (rather than ECP or EPP) mode for the parallel port.

Hmmm.  Haven't tried this, but I'm reluctant to mess around in
this way, particularly as other parallel port stuff works OK (eg
Lattice ispVM downloader).

The first set of students do their first FPGA exercises today,
and we're using the kludge of Webpack iMPACT installation used
stand-alone.  This works.

For the future, we're looking at Another Company's product. 
Shame, as we have invested a lot in Xilinx over many years. 
(That investment of time, effort and money would not have been
possible or had any point without substantial support from
Xilinx' University Program, which is freely and gratefully
acknowledged.)

-- 
Tim Forcer               tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:48:47 +0000, Tim Forcer wrote:

> We have some well-established teaching laboratory kit, using
> Xilinx XC4013E (optionally XC4020E for project work), with
> download by JTAG and a clone of Xilinx Parallel Cable III
> (DLC5).
> 
> As has been discussed here before, despite some statements on
> Xilinx Website, the latest (full-spec) Xilinx software includes
> an iMPACT downloader which doesn't support Parallel Cable III. 
> Alternatively, latest Webpack 6 includes an iMPACT which
> supports the download, but not any flavour of XC4000 (although
> all the library and similar files seem to be present).
> 
>
Why don't you stick with the last version of the Xilinx tools that really
supported the 4000 series (probably 4.2)? All of the improvements in the
current tools are aimed at today's FPGAs not at a ten year old family.
From the standpoint of your students the only difference between 4.2 and
6.1 is that the GUI is a little different, but you shouldn't care about
that because the GUI changes with every release.

The one new tool that would be very helpful for your students is
ChipScope, but that uses block RAM which is only present in modern FPGAs. 

"B. Joshua Rosen" wrote:
> 
> Why don't you stick with the last version
> of the Xilinx tools that really supported
> the 4000 series (probably 4.2)?

This is probably the simplest solution.  If I can find the
installation CD-ROM!

Means changing the standard installation on 70-odd PCs - so
ghosting will be fun (for one of the systems folk, not me).

-- 
Tim Forcer               tmf@ecs.soton.ac.uk
The University of Southampton, UK

The University is not responsible for my opinions

Tim, if you have a problem finding the CD for 4.2, contact me or call
the Xilinx UK office. We will get you over that "hurdle".
Peter Alfke

Tim Forcer wrote:
> 
> "
> This is probably the simplest solution.  If I can find the
> installation CD-ROM!
>