Hi Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new Cyclone IV Antti
Cyclone IV announced
Started by ●November 4, 2009
Reply by ●November 4, 20092009-11-04
"Antti" <antti.lukats@googlemail.com> wrote in message news:bb804275-4a39-41f6-ac65-a631278af1fd@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...> Hi > Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new > Cyclone IV > AnttiAye, but the first devices aren't available until next March. That's almost _6_ months away. :-( Nial.
Reply by ●November 4, 20092009-11-04
All, I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to 60nm). It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power, and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we are at best a two out of three for a new node). True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!" When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was "lower the power!" I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets. Anyway, it is always fun to watch how these things play out, Austin
Reply by ●November 4, 20092009-11-04
Antti wrote:> Hi > > Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new > Cyclone IVAnd us hobbyist types are wondering: will Altera give us a _free_ development environment for Linux this time? (just in case anyone from Altera drops in here occasionally). -- Torfinn Ingolfsen, Norway
Reply by ●November 4, 20092009-11-04
austin <austin@xilinx.com> wrote:>All, > >I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to >60nm). > >It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new >family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that >the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power, >and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we >are at best a two out of three for a new node). > >True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low >power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one >way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!" > >When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was >"lower the power!" > >I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the >previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but >frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to >cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets.That raises the question: Can we expect to see a new Spartan series with more speed? -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!" --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●November 4, 20092009-11-04
On Nov 5, 12:58=A0am, n...@puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:> austin <aus...@xilinx.com> wrote: > >All, > > >I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to > >60nm). > > >It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new > >family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that > >the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power, > >and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we > >are at best a two out of three for a new node). > > >True, S6 is optimized for power (first time we have ever used a low > >power process from a foundry), so bragging about performance is one > >way to shout very loudly "we sure burn a lot more power!" > > >When we asked customers what their number one need was for S6, it was > >"lower the power!" > > >I know that many like to use the latest Spartan node to replace the > >previous Virtex node (lower their bill of materials costs), but > >frankly, S6 was designed for a new markets, and not intended to > >cannibalize Virtex 5 sockets. > > That raises the question: Can we expect to see a new Spartan series > with more speed? > > -- > Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply > indicates you are not using the right tools... > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0"If it doesn't fit, use a bigg=er hammer!"> --------------------------------------------------------------i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to release it as planned Antti
Reply by ●November 5, 20092009-11-05
On Nov 5, 12:04=A0pm, Antti <antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote:> > i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first > Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to > release it as plannedTriscend revisited ? A key question is not the core, but what memory they put around it ? Plenty of ARM cores out there, that have memory included (they are called Microcontrollers!) - and the choice is growing. -jg
Reply by ●November 5, 20092009-11-05
On Nov 5, 7:25=A0am, -jg <jim.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote:> On Nov 5, 12:04=A0pm, Antti <antti.luk...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > > > i would like to see the spartan with ARM core first > > Xilinx should have inhouse silicon of it already if they are aiming to > > release it as planned > > Triscend revisited ? > > A key question is not the core, but what memory they put around it ? > > Plenty of ARM cores out there, that have memory included > (they are called Microcontrollers!) =A0- and the choice is growing. > > -jgwell ARM+CPLD is again announced now too, its called PSoC 5 cortex-M3 + small CPLD Antti
Reply by ●November 5, 20092009-11-05
>I was puzzled that they used a push of the 65nm technology node (to > 60nm). > It is a huge investment for a FPGA device company to launch a new > family, and to launch one with "the old" technology node means that > the latest technology node is guaranteed to beat you on price, power, > and/or performance (since 90nm, we do not get to choose all three, we > are at best a two out of three for a new node).TSMCs problems at 40nm are pretty well documented. Cheers, Jon
Reply by ●November 5, 20092009-11-05
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:> Antti wrote: >> Hi >> >> Altera is promising 25% more fabric speed than S6 with their new >> Cyclone IV > > And us hobbyist types are wondering: will Altera give us a _free_ > development environment for Linux this time? > (just in case anyone from Altera drops in here occasionally).There's a beta version available (I haven't tried it - I just noticed it on their web site when wandering about).