Where is the xilinx online store gone?

"Peter Alfke" <alfke@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:1145151568.450696.36950@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Well, I'll try another attack on our demonstrated stupidity.
> I have screamed and hollered for almost a year, and sent e-mails up the
> ladder, up to one step below the very top.
> Maybe I have to go one stop higher.
> Steve Knapp and I are very frustrated about this situation.
> Obviously, our company could do much better...
> Peter Alfke, from home

Feel free to print out all the comments here and give them
to who ever you need to.

Can't they see that if you loose small sales / prototype quantities
and you competitor looks after that market segment , you are just going to 
start bleeding sales
and only be restricted to the large companies.

The small contract designers just stop using xilinx.

But a problem hits a few years down the track, when the large companies 
start taking on new
people who prefer to use your competitors tools and devices
as they are familiar with them.

Avnet can be fine for ordering boards and equipment some times but
they are usually quite slow and prefer dealing with large companies.

You guys just want to give sales to Altera , Lattice etc , don't you ?

Alex 

"Peter Alfke" <alfke@sbcglobal.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:1145151568.450696.36950@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Well, I'll try another attack on our demonstrated stupidity.
> I have screamed and hollered for almost a year, and sent e-mails up the
> ladder, up to one step below the very top.
> Maybe I have to go one stop higher.
> Steve Knapp and I are very frustrated about this situation.
> Obviously, our company could do much better...
> Peter Alfke, from home
>

Dear Peter,

glad to see you to stick up - let me try to help as much as I can (to rock 
the higher boat)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My mother did show me a picture of my dad in the history book of Estonian 
Aeronautics.

So the strongest male influence from my young years was one simple word, 
from one
teacher in the 'rocket model' hobby club. This word is (its one word in 
estonian):

"Decision courage"

I do find this word so good one, so good that it qualifies every male giving 
to a child nothing more than this one word as a good father.

Xilinx removing the Spartan-3 (and possible other silicon devices) from 
direct online offering is a bad example of

"Decision courage-less" (one word in estonian) behaviour.

No matter if the decision to have Silicon Devices (including Spartan-3) in 
online shop was later seen as bad decision, it was that sort of "executive 
decision" that has to be kept even if it was a bad decision. Stepping back 
from it show the weakness of the Xilinx (executives).

There could be 3 reasons for the withdrawal (3 that I and I think most other 
people can figure out)

1) Xilinx sees direct sales as too much "hassle" - well if it is so, then no 
matter how much hassle it is, Xilinx should stick to the previous executive 
decision (to have the silicon devices in online shop)

2) Xilinx has serious availability and/or yield issues and removing the 
devices from its own online shop gives a possibility to try to hide and 
mascerade those yield problems - by blaming the distrubutors not having 
stock (but devices actually being available). Needless to say that all that 
kind of 'mascerade' attempts are silly and dont fulfill its purpose at the 
end of the day anyway.

3) Xilinx did step back because of pressure of the distributors (mainly 
Avnet?) - if that was the reasons then it again demonstrates nothing more 
than the weakness of Xilinx as global company and the weakness (decision 
courage-less) of Xilinx executives.

...

As of current the status of Xilinx silicon availability is getting worse -

1) Digikey should not be considered as source for Xilinx, they have some 
items in stock but what they have is very random, and items that they used 
to have may not be available any more any day (specially those you need when 
you need).

2) I have never dealt with NuHorizons, but all I have heard is only 
problems. To my emails I have never had any response from NuHorizons, so I 
am not considering them for anything.

3) I have had several issues with Memec before they merged into Avnet, there 
is no memec so no more issues :)

4) My only purchase from Avnet was 6 month late (despite order 
confirmation). Others have expressed the Xilinx parts availability situation 
from Avnet worse than from Memec

Thats are the 'sources' for Xilinx components.

Altera has direct online shop, with pretty much pricing and atock info for 
latest parts - everyone finds that a very good thing. Not to mention that 
everyone I have talked too, have said pretty much one thing - Altera's 
software is just simply getting better. Better and better every 
release/udpate.

Lattice has no direct online orders, but the stock at disties like Mouser 
also for latest parts (machXO, XP) is checkable with a few mouseclicks. Also 
other distributors claim immediate fom stock delivery (what I can also 
confirm personally having received the parts).

Xilinx has greatly imrpoved the price/perfomrance ration of Xilinx own 
evaluation boards after overpriced ML300 so my current primary source for 
Xilinx eval boards would be Xilinx direct (online shop), having the silicon 
devices orderable as side orders, would be real good thing. If they arent, 
well Altera has all from one shop.

Similarly as others have said already, the lack of silicon devices in oline 
shop is just another drop to choose alternative vendors.

And dear Xilinx, an even an ocean is made of single drops of water. It's 
hard to tell when last drop falls that makes the decision scale to turn over 
(in favor of competitive products). But every drop makes that possibility 
(of such decisions) closer.

Antti Lukats,
Xilant Tecnologies

PS we will have some (FPGA related product) to launch soon (within 8 weeks 
max)

hi everybody,

maybe we can do a petition about this xilinx store ?...
i'm French user and i can affirm that Avnet France, preferer (to not says
want ) only big customers ..
they are slow and expensive.. totaly incompatible with prototype phase.

Maybe Xilinx prefer that we try Lattice or others parts ?...

i'm realy not happy against that problem. they can be take example from
Microchip & sample service ...

( sorry for my bad english ! )


Regard's
Philippe




<jaxato@gmail.com> a &#4294967295;crit dans le message de
news:1145130612.059195.298690@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> As I was buying some components from the Xilinx online store this
> morning, I noticed that they no longer support silicon device anymore.
> It seems that it is now AVNET that is taking care of distributing
> Xilinx FPGA online. The worse thing is that the price is more
> expensive, and they do not have all the parts that Xilinx use to offer
> (the part I am looking for specially).
> Now i've got a few questions for the Xilinx people out there. Is it
> really true or if it not, then what is the updated link for your online
> section.
>
> Many thanks
> Jacques
>

On 15 Apr 2006 18:39:28 -0700, "Peter Alfke" <alfke@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Well, I'll try another attack on our demonstrated stupidity.
>I have screamed and hollered for almost a year, and sent e-mails up the
>ladder, up to one step below the very top.
>Maybe I have to go one stop higher.
>Steve Knapp and I are very frustrated about this situation.
>Obviously, our company could do much better...
>Peter Alfke, from home

If you want to give an example of someone who has got it right : 
http://www.microchipdirect.com/

Hi Philippe,

I am totally for that. Like im sure if we could get like 10,000s names,
then we would have achieve something. I was thinking about how they
took the decision of removing the online shop. Just recently, I noticed
that they added the PROM section to the online shop. This lend me to
believe that at one point, they were actually promoting and saw a
future for online shopping, but something happened that made them took
a 180 degrees U turn. I wouldnt be surprised if in late March 2006, the
big bosses of Xilinx and Avnet had lunch in one of these fancy and they
decided: Hey let's do something really bad, let's take out the online
shop. And I am pretty sure that it was instigated by Avnet.

Yesterday, I was checking out their shipping policy and the way they do
business for international customers. Avnet ask that you purchase a
minimum order of $500, if you are from outside the states or canada.
Cmon people, you would get 50 x XC3S100 for that price and this isnt
prototyping anymore. Then, when I think that Xilinx advertise on their
site, in big, brite and bold: "World=B4s Lowest Cost FPGAs - now
available in prototyping quanties from Avnet"... ironical isnt it,
makes me wonder where we are heading. Lets face it, we have a problem
here and we should find a solution, and quick. Now, Peter and al, you
should advise us of the possible moves that we've got in order to
replace or convice your bosses of getting back our dear online shop.

>From a previously happy canadian customer.
Jacques

Jim Granville wrote:

> http://www.altera.com/buy/buy-index.html
> Some other company seems to have found a way to have a web store

In that same link, note that Altera is now making the same
mistake with development software that Xilinx is making
with devices. So it goes.

           -- Mike Treseler

Antti Lukats wrote:
> Altera's 
> software is just simply getting better. Better and better every 
> release/udpate.

Which is surprising to me, considering that the initial HDL support
on MAXplus2 was the Subaru 360 of CAE :)
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/360van-sideview3.jpe

> even an ocean is made of single drops of water. It's 
> hard to tell when last drop falls that makes the decision scale to turn over 

Last year, at my local ski hill, there were 14 ski schools.
This year, all but 5 were sent packing. Next year there
will be only one ski school.


               -- Mike Treseler

On a sunny day (Sun, 16 Apr 2006 07:28:31 -0700) it happened "Mike Treseler"
<mike_treseler@comcast.net> wrote in <4af2kgFsjcngU1@individual.net>:

>Antti Lukats wrote:
>> Altera's 
>> software is just simply getting better. Better and better every 
>> release/udpate.
>
>Which is surprising to me, considering that the initial HDL support
>on MAXplus2 was the Subaru 360 of CAE :)
>http://www.cars101.com/subaru/360van-sideview3.jpe
>
>> even an ocean is made of single drops of water. It's 
>> hard to tell when last drop falls that makes the decision scale to turn over 
>
>Last year, at my local ski hill, there were 14 ski schools.
>This year, all but 5 were sent packing. Next year there
>will be only one ski school.
>
Would be a pity if only Altera was left, as a bit of competion improves quality
and lowers prices.

Hi Jacques,

i totaly agree with you.
sorry my english is too poor, i can't write all i think !...

effectively, there is a minimum order on Avnet France too ..
and they don't sell directly with a credit card ...
if i want some parts for my personnal use.. i can't now ! :(
only digikey ...

if anybody know how create & manage a petition ...
let's go !

thank's
philippe






<jaxato@gmail.com> a &#4294967295;crit dans le message de news: 
1145194584.152053.110350@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi Philippe,

I am totally for that. Like im sure if we could get like 10,000s names,
then we would have achieve something. I was thinking about how they
took the decision of removing the online shop. Just recently, I noticed
that they added the PROM section to the online shop. This lend me to
believe that at one point, they were actually promoting and saw a
future for online shopping, but something happened that made them took
a 180 degrees U turn. I wouldnt be surprised if in late March 2006, the
big bosses of Xilinx and Avnet had lunch in one of these fancy and they
decided: Hey let's do something really bad, let's take out the online
shop. And I am pretty sure that it was instigated by Avnet.

Yesterday, I was checking out their shipping policy and the way they do
business for international customers. Avnet ask that you purchase a
minimum order of $500, if you are from outside the states or canada.
Cmon people, you would get 50 x XC3S100 for that price and this isnt
prototyping anymore. Then, when I think that Xilinx advertise on their
site, in big, brite and bold: "World&#4294967295;s Lowest Cost FPGAs - now
available in prototyping quanties from Avnet"... ironical isnt it,
makes me wonder where we are heading. Lets face it, we have a problem
here and we should find a solution, and quick. Now, Peter and al, you
should advise us of the possible moves that we've got in order to
replace or convice your bosses of getting back our dear online shop.

>From a previously happy canadian customer.
Jacques

"PC" <philippe.chagny**NO-SPAM**@free.fr> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:44427e87$0$487$626a54ce@news.free.fr...
> Hi Jacques,
>
> i totaly agree with you.
> sorry my english is too poor, i can't write all i think !...
>
> effectively, there is a minimum order on Avnet France too ..
> and they don't sell directly with a credit card ...
> if i want some parts for my personnal use.. i can't now ! :(
> only digikey ...
>
> if anybody know how create & manage a petition ...
> let's go !
>
> thank's
> philippe

Hi Jacques&Philippe et all,

it may be surprising but the amount of responses/votes would not matter at 
all.
A simple plea at c.a.f. to restore silicon devices into Xilinx online shop 
would
likely receive 10 to 100 responses. However this number should actually
deserve as more reason for Xilinx for concerne than a 10,000 votes thing.
Because those missing votes are dont care, no interest, switching to 
competitor, etc.

Digikey should not be considered as any choice (getting Xilinx silicon) - 
Digikey
is great to occasionally check overall thumb guess component pricing and 
availability.
It is ok to buy from digikey for small series, but then all components 
should be
purchased for the full production span as any components that used to be 
available
on Digikey may disappear anytime without notice. I had a project that was 
covered
almost 100% from components available at Digikey, at the time it was ready 
for
production most of those parts from the BOM where dropped by Digikey.

The matter of instant sample/proto quantity component online ordering is
VERY important, and it is long recognized by almost all vendors. Either
you can order free samples or buy small quantities online. Getting samples
for proto or evualuation fast without hassle is important. If you have to
deal with large distributor to get the sample, then you loose both time
and mental health.

National has for most products with special '24hrs' sample option
(well I guess for N.A. only but still) - they recognize that the speed
(read immediate shipment) of samples can the factor that makes the
difference.

If I can buy 10 pieces online with shipment confirmation being sent
within 24hours I can safely start a design and have pilot series all
finished within 2 weeks from the idea to final product prototypes.

If the part is not in stock by digikey and you need to start talking
to Avnet you might be still be talking to them after two weeks.
And that could be another desing loss for Xilinx. A desing loss for
a project/product that could have large yearly volumes later.

The ability to do initial evaluation-testing, pilot series quickly does 
matter.

Antti

PS Xilinx is sure not the only one with issues getting parts and pricing.

While talking to Actel disti, haha the best price estimate for 1 off
PA3E (with ARM) license was 100,000 USD !!!

They refused to give any pricing, all they told me that the arm enabled
option extra price for the silicon is 1$ USD in quantities of 100.000
and that the license price is scaled down for smaller orders.
(This would come to 100,000 USD price for single qty)
Talking to other disti and Actel FAE was better, the arm enabled
(its only a security key inside the Actel silicon) adds 120USD to
the component price for quantities below 10 (and not 100,000).
So smallest PA3E with arm enabled (that it the AES key)
costs 150USD (not 20 as without that AES key).

Actel is pushing heavy on their ARM enabled FPGAs but
OTOH they really do not want any customers with less
than 100k volumes to actually use the ARM enabled silicon.

Sure this Actel case is extreme example of stupidity and Xilinx
is not getting even near to this. But if other are doing bad, doesnt
meant that Xilinx should follow and reduce their flexibility of the
component availability by removing the silicon devices from online
shop.

Xilinx is pushing towards "Make it your ASIC" that is low
cost markets, and for those well you never know when a
project that starts small grows really big. Or if an occasional
hobby user playing with Spartan3 figures out some high
volume consumer product. If that hobby user doesnt get
that spartan (becuase now way to buy it) he will also never
desing any high volume thing that is based on the Xilinx silicon.