On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 13:21:14 -0800, "Joel Koltner" <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message >news:bfv0k6ldmvka2jrkijvsm0af1m2tturev3@4ax.com... >> Here in California, an employer can ask an employee to take their >> stuff and leave, this very day or this very instant. I did that last >> week. > >I've read stories of where a group of folks were asked to come out to the >parking lot for a "meeting" and then told... oh, hey, you're laid off -- we'll >be sending your personal effects to you via mail! > >That's pretty brutal, but I suppose it's meant to insure there's absolutely no >chance someone starts to sabotage their employer... although you have to >wonder what sort of relationship management has with their employees when that >sort of thing crosses their minds; it kinda implies that the relationship was >more one of "we're each out to exploit the other as much as possible" rather >than one closer to "everyone wins." > >> And an employee can quit without notice. I've had people walk >> into my office, say "I quit", and walk out. > >That's when you say, "You can't quit, because I've already fired you!" :-) > >---JoelNope, you always let them quit. If you fire them, they have a chance at getting unemployment, which can cost you. If they quit, they are SOL! Charlie
Xilinx news
Started by ●January 22, 2011
Reply by ●January 26, 20112011-01-26
Reply by ●January 26, 20112011-01-26
On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:05:51 -0800, the renowned John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:26:06 +0100, David Brown ><david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: > >>On 24/01/2011 23:17, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:51:12 -0800 (PST), rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >><snip> >>>> But none of this has to do with nationality. >>>> >>>> Rick >>> >>> >> >>It is important to distinguish between nationality and a country's laws >>and bureaucracy - the regulations in John's quotation are about a >>country's regulations, not an issue with the people. >> >>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212317/Xilinx--sales-fall-short-of-estimates >>> >>> "Xilinx recorded $4.3 million worth of restructuring charges during >>> the recently concluded quarter. Olson said the charges were greater >>> than expected because the company is closing its software development >>> operation in France, where regulations make eliminating jobs >>> difficult." >>> >>> John >>> >> >>Clearly we don't know /what/ regulations are at issue here, as there >>could be many. >> >>In general, you have to have good reason for firing people in Europe, >>and normally you have to give significant notice (I don't know the >>details for France, but 3 months is standard here in Norway. Of course, >>this also means you can't quit your job without giving 3 months notice - >>it works both ways). > >Does the law require that you remain productive during those three >months? > > > But cutting staff because you are downsizing /is/ >>a good reason, though you might have to pay some sort of severance pay >>or other compensation. You can't just tell employees to clear their >>desks on the day, but you certainly can eliminate jobs. > >Here in California, an employer can ask an employee to take their >stuff and leave, this very day or this very instant. I did that last >week. And an employee can quit without notice. I've had people walk >into my office, say "I quit", and walk out. > >JohnThere are more restrictive federal rules for things of the scale of the Xilinx closing:- http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title20/20cfr639_main_02.tpl (60 day written notice) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●January 27, 20112011-01-27
On 26/01/2011 21:05, John Larkin wrote:> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:26:06 +0100, David Brown > <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: > >> On 24/01/2011 23:17, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:51:12 -0800 (PST), rickman<gnuarm@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >> <snip> >>>> But none of this has to do with nationality. >>>> >>>> Rick >>> >>> >> >> It is important to distinguish between nationality and a country's laws >> and bureaucracy - the regulations in John's quotation are about a >> country's regulations, not an issue with the people. >> >>> http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212317/Xilinx--sales-fall-short-of-estimates >>> >>> "Xilinx recorded $4.3 million worth of restructuring charges during >>> the recently concluded quarter. Olson said the charges were greater >>> than expected because the company is closing its software development >>> operation in France, where regulations make eliminating jobs >>> difficult." >>> >>> John >>> >> >> Clearly we don't know /what/ regulations are at issue here, as there >> could be many. >> >> In general, you have to have good reason for firing people in Europe, >> and normally you have to give significant notice (I don't know the >> details for France, but 3 months is standard here in Norway. Of course, >> this also means you can't quit your job without giving 3 months notice - >> it works both ways). > > Does the law require that you remain productive during those three > months? >Note - I might not be entirely accurate here, since I am not involved in HR (other than helping with some technical interviews), and I've had the same job for the last sixteen years. Yes, you are bound by your contract (which employers must have with each employee, except for very short-term temporaries). Of course, it would get very messy if the employer had to sue the employee in court for breach of contract - generally if the employee is not going to do useful work for those 3 months, the employer and employee will reach an agreement. For example, if the employee is going to work for a competitor, the employer will probably effectively give him 3 months paid leave. It is also possible to make different arrangements, such as cutting out the 3 months so that the employee can start a new job immediately. The point of all this is to give both the employer and the employee a degree of stability. When you have a permanent job, you know you have a predictable income for the next three months at least. And when you have employed someone, you know they are not going to drop everything and disappear without notice. It makes it harder to fire a worker who doesn't do a good job (though you can still be fired on very short notice if you are doing something criminal, or dangerous, or grossly disloyal to your employer).> > But cutting staff because you are downsizing /is/ >> a good reason, though you might have to pay some sort of severance pay >> or other compensation. You can't just tell employees to clear their >> desks on the day, but you certainly can eliminate jobs. > > Here in California, an employer can ask an employee to take their > stuff and leave, this very day or this very instant. I did that last > week. And an employee can quit without notice. I've had people walk > into my office, say "I quit", and walk out. >Perhaps the Norwegian way takes some of the fun and excitement out of the employer-employee relationship...
